Holy! Wow! Speechless!

[MarylandAG]

Is this true? it sure seems legit.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsStory.asp?ID=060806_Sp_B8_Adria5268

[polish]

Yeah thats what I was thinking. They might be in even deeper **** than I thought.

[Pflugerville Ag]

Wow, I can't wait to hear what his dad's W2 looked like. If that ex-con was making some serious cash, then OU is even more screwed than we thought.

[MarylandAG]

The land thieves are on a roll! just when you think the plot can't get any juicer, it just did!

Hello NCAA, my name is RED FLAG!

[The Massacre]

geez. this could get interesting if that is found to be another violation.

[Dustin00whoop]

Okie Lite is next!!! Man, I hope that whole "Blueprint for NCAA Compliance" is still true. Its one thing to suck, but its a whole other thing to cheat & still suck. Look for the Big XII to become the SEC. Team after team throwing each other underneath the bus. I'm sure OU will have the NCAA in Austin in no time. This really & truly is our chance to turn this whole thing around. It starts this season on the football field, but if we take care of business there, it'll roll over into recruiting big time, for years to come.

[addsae]

MAN when it rains it pours huh?

[JohnL]

It starts this season on the football field, but if we take care of business there, it'll roll over into recruiting big time, for years to come.
Wake up Dustin.....it's just a dream.
:cheesy:

[Dustin00whoop]

Wake up Dustin.....it's just a dream.
:cheesy:

Go back to your hole, John. ;)

[JohnL]

Digging now Sir!

[Dustin00whoop]

Digging now Sir!

That actually made me LOL!!! Don't stop until you reach the Yao Mings down in China. ;)

[CaliHornia]

Team after team throwing each other underneath the bus. I'm sure OU will have the NCAA in Austin in no time.

For what exactly?

First, Mack didn't turn OU or Bomar in on this.

Second, have the NCAA in Austin to do what? What are our violations? Do you have anything beyond your blind faith that if we're winning we must be cheating?

Third, if teams are going to be throwing each other under the bus, how is A&M going to get left out? Is it the idea that because you guys can't win you must not be cheating? Because you guys have been recruiting okay.

This sort of stuff always amazes me. We don't have the history of cheating that some programs do.

And, Mack hasn't been winning the head-to-head battles on highly sought after recruits who've made interesting choices--Bomar, Peterson, Perriloux, cough, Bennet, cough. Mack wins because he just recruits better all around.

[Pflugerville Ag]

Relax Horn. If you were OU and were going to go down in flames, and wanted to take another team with you, would you choose UT or A&M right now? He was not saying he knows that UT is doing something wrong, but that OU would be likely to throw UT into the mix if given the chance.

[polish]

1.
Why do you think Bennett recruitment was strange?
He committed to UM and then stayed closer to home

2.
No one said Texas cheated. There is no major cheating at either of our schools as far as I can tell or have heard. Could there be some minutia of some NCAA rule, yeah probably at every schools. Personally my problem with all schools is they give players way too many chances (Jorrie Adams and Ramonce Taylor) to name players from our respective teams, but it happens everywhere because of pressure to win

3.
Both our respective teams have kept out of trouble
NCAA Violations since the inception of the Big XII (big 3 sports)
A&M-0 (although it seems A&M kingsville cheats like a mofo)
UT-1

[Dustin00whoop]

I said it would end up being like the SEC--where every school is turning in every other school for some kind of violation whether it exists or not. I think most conferences have the "lets stay out of each other's backyard" mentality. That changed in the SEC a while back & they have all been on probation since then. I think you can now expect the same thing to happen in the Big XII. Cali, you can't tell me that once all this came down you didn't think, "Man, I hope we are clean!"

[Pflugerville Ag]

Cali, you can't tell me that once all this came down you didn't think, "Man, I hope we are clean!"

Exactly. That is the first thing that I thought of. If the NCAA finds more stuff at OU, then they just might feel the need to look at the other Big 12 schools and see if the same type of stuff is happening. Plus, if OU knows anything about A&M or UT, then I'm pretty sure they would not hesistate to try and take us down with them.

[CaliHornia]

Relax Horn. If you were OU and were going to go down in flames, and wanted to take another team with you, would you choose UT or A&M right now? He was not saying he knows that UT is doing something wrong, but that OU would be likely to throw UT into the mix if given the chance.

If the Horns were going down in flames, I wouldn't care about OU or A&M. I'd care about the Horns.

And frankly, from what I'm reading on the OU boards, they care about the Sooners.

The only time one team starts getting thoughts of revenge is when the other has pulled a Fulmer.

[CaliHornia]

1.
Why do you think Bennett recruitment was strange?
He committed to UM and then stayed closer to home

Because he went to what has, at the time and currently, the lesser of the two programs and to an offense that didn't use a TE.

[CaliHornia]

I said it would end up being like the SEC--where every school is turning in every other school for some kind of violation whether it exists or not.

That's because Fulmer started that there. As best we can tell here, OU imploded on itself.

I think most conferences have the "lets stay out of each other's backyard" mentality. That changed in the SEC a while back & they have all been on probation since then.

How is that in any way similar to what happened here?

And, in any event, your post posited that somehow if this did happen, it would be a chance for A&M. Now seriously, if you've got no reason to believe Texas has done anything wrong (and other than blind hatred, you don't) what makes you think we're going to be brought into this mythical fracas and A&M won't?

Your post had two problems: (1) it assumed that everyone in the big 12 would go Fulmer on each other for no reason and (2) it assumed that A&M would be the clean program that got left out.

Cali, you can't tell me that once all this came down you didn't think, "Man, I hope we are clean!"

I alway's hope we're clean. Not because I'm afraid we'll be investigated by the NCAA, but because I don't want to ever find out my team won that way.

Setting that aside, I'm still trying to get your point--Are you saying I'd think that but that you didn't?

I'm trying to figure out your rationalization for posting that if everyone in the conference started backbiting A&M would come out on top? What made you think that?

[CaliHornia]

Dustin--

Just explain what this means:

I'm sure OU will have the NCAA in Austin in no time. This really & truly is our chance to turn this whole thing around.

The way I read that, you seem to think OU is going to have the NCAA down on us.

We'll get nailed (because, you know, every Aggie KNOWS we cheat). Everyone in the conference goes after each other and. . .

You guys have a chance to turn it around? What does that mean? How are you guys going to be left out of everyone going after each other?

[Dustin00whoop]

How hard is it to understand. OU hates t.u. OU competes with t.u. for the best recruits in the state of TX. OU gets in trouble. Don't think they won't do everything within their power to get t.u. in trouble too. If OU & t.u. both have trouble with the NCAA that leaves the door wide open for the Ags. WE have nothing to worry about. You forget, we've been the blueprint for NCAA compliance for over a decade. When a team gets sanctioned by the NCAA, they send the staff to A&M to see how things are supposed to be done.

[CaliHornia]

How hard is it to understand. OU hates t.u. OU competes with t.u. for the best recruits in the state of TX. OU gets in trouble. Don't think they won't do everything within their power to get t.u. in trouble too. If OU & t.u. both have trouble with the NCAA that leaves the door wide open for the Ags. WE have nothing to worry about. You forget, we've been the blueprint for NCAA compliance for over a decade. When a team gets sanctioned by the NCAA, they send the staff to A&M to see how things are supposed to be done.

Okay. This is one of the silliest posts I've ever read anywhere--either here, BOFZ, Texags or Hornfans.

Let me get this straight: No evidence Texas has done anything wrong. Nothing. Nada.

OU goes down (and it's debatable at this point how much) because their QB took an $18k paycheck.

Texas had nothing to do with it. We didn't even have anything to do with it getting reported (though an Aggie may have).

We still haven't done anything wrong.

Despite the fact that OU seems to be skating and the fact that Texas had nothing to do with them getting nailed for Bomar in the first place and despite the fact that there's not even a whiff of any evidence that Texas has done anything remotely wrong, OU for some reason sends the NCAA to Texas and we get nailed for something and pretty soon OU and Texas are looking at bowl bans, etc.

Strangely, despite the fact that OU decided for no reason (and the NCAA agreed based on nothing) to just sanction Texas for the hell of it, neither Texas nor OU looks A&M's way (despite A&M's history of doing exactly this sort of thing).

The result is that everyone in the big 12 conference starts going after each other, but A&M dodges a bullet BECAUSE OF it's past transgressions. No one even questions why Goodsen went to A&M after both USC and OSU got suspicious of something (which is at least as questionable as anything Texas has had happen in the last decade). The whole thing about pockets filled with money. . .just a misunderstanding. He was high on a selling point that A&M offers just like every other school in the country, apparently. Um-hm.

How could I not have seen how clear this was?






You've got to be kidding.

And this:

WE have nothing to worry about. You forget, we've been the blueprint for NCAA compliance for over a decade. When a team gets sanctioned by the NCAA, they send the staff to A&M to see how things are supposed to be done.

Is the absolute biggest crock of unsupported, totally self-serving bullsh!t you'll ever have the opportunity to read on any college message board anywhere.

A&M has as much reason to worry about this stuff as Texas and every other school in Div-1 football does. Get over thinking that you're special. You've cheated (and been caught cheating) before, and you will again.

[Dustin00whoop]

I read your first two lines & I quit. There was no freaking evidence that OU did anything wrong either until they got caught. You're not baiting me tonight, Cali. I'm tired of reading your over-protective worthless post, so I'm done with you. If you are too ignorant to understand the points that I'm making, & if you don't understand what has happened since we've been caught, then I'll let someone else explain it to you. I'm done with you. Enjoy the Ignore List, sip!

[CaliHornia]

I read your first two lines & I quit. There was no freaking evidence that OU did anything wrong either until they got caught.

Oh really? That Aggiegrant thing didn't happen?

I mean, is everything we've heard coming out of OU (much of which has been posted here) that everyone in Norman knew something was up (especially after the Peterson deal) just made up?

You're not baiting me tonight, Cali. I'm tired of reading your over-protective worthless post, so I'm done with you. Enjoy the Ignore List, sip!

You can ignore me...your comrades can see how senseless your BS is.

You posted something totally idiotic. Yes, it's true that we COULD get caught for SOMETHING no one knows anything about. That's true of every program in the country, including yours.

Yet strangely for reasons only you appear to understand--you certainly haven't been willing to share them here--A&M has zero chance of being nailed for anything and would be the program best off if the Big 12 descended into an NCAA investigation mosh pit.

Does anyone else here buy that load?

[CaliHornia]

By the way, in case this gets misinterpreted, I'm not suggesting you guys have anything to worry about. Despite what I've said and the innuendo, there's no reason to believe you're dirty.

But there's certainly no reason to believe Texas is.

What I take issue with is Dustin's ridiculous claim--and it's undeniable that this is the claim he's making--that Texas better be worried, but A&M can rest easy.

That's absurd.

[The Massacre]

i'm too tired to get involved, but this is a strange argument.

[Dustin00whoop]

I don't even know what Cali is saying anymore, because I don't feel like arguing with the guy tonight. But, if anyone doesn't realize that we've been the blueprint for NCAA compliance (according to the NCAA) since we got busted, then I'm clearly dealing with someone that doesn't understand what has been going on the last 15 years & they aren't worthy of my time.

But to clarify again, I never said tu was cheating. I said that OU would try their hardest to get the NCAA to investigate t.u. because that is going to be their only chance to even the playing field again. It only makes sense. That doesn't mean that they'll find anything, but what would make one think that they would cheat in baseball & not football--about the exact opposite thing that would make one think that they aren't cheating at all. Maybe I'm just too exhausted to convey in words what I'm trying to say right now. If anyone else is missing my point, let me know & maybe I'll try again tomorrow when I'm a little more rested.

[CaliHornia]

I don't even know what Cali is saying anymore, because I don't feel like arguing with the guy tonight. But, if anyone doesn't realize that we've been the blueprint for NCAA compliance (according to the NCAA) since we got busted, then I'm clearly dealing with someone that doesn't understand what has been going on the last 15 years & they aren't worthy of my time.

But to clarify again, I never said tu was cheating. I said that OU would try their hardest to get the NCAA to investigate t.u. because that is going to be their only chance to even the playing field again. It only makes sense. That doesn't mean that they'll find anything, but what would make one think that they would cheat in baseball & not football--about the exact opposite thing that would make one think that they aren't cheating at all. Maybe I'm just too exhausted to convey in words what I'm trying to say right now. If anyone else is missing my point, let me know & maybe I'll try again tomorrow when I'm a little more rested.

I'm willing to bet all of this will sound just as stupid to everyone tomorrow.

Just come clean, admit you made an idiotic post and forget about it. There's absolutely nothing that would suggest to any rational human being that there's any chance Texas is somehow going to catch hell as a result of OU (which is notorious for paying players) cheating.

You made an illogical post that we would. Just forget about it now and move on.

[CaliHornia]

then I'm clearly dealing with someone that doesn't understand what has been going on the last 15 years & they aren't worthy of my time.

Wasn't your last violation in 1994? Wasn't it for exactly what OU is doing now?

[zrf2002]

something like that as far as the year, BUT we had i think 7 players who were payed a total of just over 17K. bomar alone was paid 18K. why are you arguing in defense of OU anyways. i do not know of anything off of the top of my head that tu has every gotten caught by the ncaa for, but i am sure there is something, almost every school has had something come down at some time or another.

[pabloknight]

WE have nothing to worry about. You forget, we've been the blueprint for NCAA compliance for over a decade. When a team gets sanctioned by the NCAA, they send the staff to A&M to see how things are supposed to be done.
This is pretty far out there, in a sense. The program (AD, coaches, etc) can be clean, but you still cannot control boosters and the players, if they so choose.
I think this is what Cali is really trying to get to. That, and you said "for over a decade" which I don't think he caught, or got the gist of what Dustin was trying to say.
Anyway, why am I defending Dustin? He's scared ;) to show up at our Austin tailgate.

[CaliHornia]

something like that as far as the year, BUT we had i think 7 players who were payed a total of just over 17K. bomar alone was paid 18K. why are you arguing in defense of OU anyways. i do not know of anything off of the top of my head that tu has every gotten caught by the ncaa for, but i am sure there is something, almost every school has had something come down at some time or another.

It was nine players.

And I'm not arguing for OU.

And I'm not saying we haven't been caught doing something before.

What I am saying is that Dustin's theory that somehow OU getting nailed for Bomar means everyone else in the conference BUT the Aggies will get nailed by the NCAA is just plain silly.

There's no reason to believe any program other than OU is going to take a hit (first).

And there's no reason to believe that if any program did take a hit it would be one of the other programs (or, under Dustin's theory, Texas), but not A&M.

It's just completely worthless fanboy bullsh!t. It's actually not typical of this site, either.

[zrf2002]

either way, if it is 9, 7, or 2 players who are paid money for work they did not do, it will be very intersting to see what the ncaa does to ou. we had the post season ban and no tv games in seasons where we had some of our best records and quite possible missed out on a national championship. i wonder if the ncaa will look at the number of player who were involved or the total amount of money and decide what ou's punishment will be??? they should get something more than just losing a few ships though.

[Dustin00whoop]

This is pretty far out there, in a sense. The program (AD, coaches, etc) can be clean, but you still cannot control boosters and the players, if they so choose.
I think this is what Cali is really trying to get to. That, and you said "for over a decade" which I don't think he caught, or got the gist of what Dustin was trying to say.
Anyway, why am I defending Dustin? He's scared ;) to show up at our Austin tailgate.

I am moving out to the north Austin area as soon as I sell my house here, so I may just end up showing up. I've never been afraid to walk into the Lion's Den! :D

And you are correct, you can't control boosters/players, etc. But I don't know of any school that stays on their boosters like A&M does. Every single thing that comes out from the 12th Man Foundation has an article about compliance in it. And I can assure you that they are very proactive in staying on top of what the boosters are doing. That doesn't mean that they aren't doing anything illegal. But it does at least let me know that the Foundation is doing all they can to stay on top of it....unlike OU...or at least it appears that way.

[CaliHornia]

I am moving out to the north Austin area as soon as I sell my house here, so I may just end up showing up. I've never been afraid to walk into the Lion's Den! :D

And you are correct, you can't control boosters/players, etc. But I don't know of any school that stays on their boosters like A&M does. Every single thing that comes out from the 12th Man Foundation has an article about compliance in it. And I can assure you that they are very proactive in staying on top of what the boosters are doing. That doesn't mean that they aren't doing anything illegal. But it does at least let me know that the Foundation is doing all they can to stay on top of it....unlike OU...or at least it appears that way.

I got news for you. Telling boosters (who already know) that paying players is against the rules isn't being "very proactive" or "doing all they can."

The guys at OU knew this was wrong.

Compliance involves a lot of things. I agree that OU apparently wasn't doing them. But just telling your boosters not to pay players is a joke and is not doing anything more to stay on top of them than oh say, every single program in DI football does.

[zrf2002]

sounds like you need a jobe in a compliance dept if you know soooooooooooooooooo much about everything that is involved. so what does tu do to stay on top of it? there is only so much an administration or athletic dept can do or which they have control over. pretty much any time a player is not on the practice field or on the playing field, anything can happen.

[CaliHornia]

sounds like you need a jobe in a compliance dept if you know soooooooooooooooooo much about everything that is involved. so what does tu do to stay on top of it? there is only so much an administration or athletic dept can do or which they have control over. pretty much any time a player is not on the practice field or on the playing field, anything can happen.

Well, you'd have to concede that just telling boosters not to pay players (something that's obviously wrong) isn't doing much right?

That much has to be clear.

I'd think that what would be involved would be checks on every player that has a job, at least for starters, to see what they're getting paid and if they're showing up for their job.

Stoops and OU didn't do this. He's clearly lying when he says he didn't know Bomar was even working.

Beyond that, obviously there are grey areas.

But Dustin didn't go into any of them to suggest A&M was leading the way. . .

[zrf2002]

he doesnt have to when it has been published many times by the ncaa that a&m is the blueprint for compliance and has been for over ten years. i think that speaks enough volume by itself.

[JonesyMan]

So......is the NCAA goin to investigate the rest of the BIG 12 or what?;)

[CaliHornia]

he doesnt have to when it has been published many times by the ncaa that a&m is the blueprint for compliance and has been for over ten years. i think that speaks enough volume by itself.

You know, I've googled and googled and haven't found much to back that up.

Are you guys suggesting that out of all of the NCAA Div 1-A programs the NCAA is pointing to you guys as the model to follow? I'm not saying it's not the case, but I'd like to see hard proof that the NCAA is saying anything positive about your compliance that they're aren't saying about the vast majority of programs that haven't had anywhere near the number of major NCAA infractions you guys have had.

Have you seen this personally or are you relying on Dustin?

I'm saying point to something that suggests that the NCAA feels you guys have stronger compliance than anyone else in the Big 12 even.

And, since you guys have said it's been said MANY times by the NCAA, I'd expect there would be MANY direct cites to the NCAA homepage.

Again, I'm not saying you guys are any different than any other school on this, but in 1998--just 8 years ago--you had a multiple convicted criminal on your football team. I don't know how that fits into the whole Aggie Honor Code thing, or the "blueprint" or "model" for NCAA compliance, but it seems like a square peg in a round hole to me. . .

[The Massacre]

i don't look for or listen to the truth, i only look for and listen to lies. ;) on the other hand, what d and z are saying seems to sound familiar.

[polish]

Because he went to what has, at the time and currently, the lesser of the two programs and to an offense that didn't use a TE.
Just a reminder this was about Bennett

1.
I'll agree Miami was the better team at his recruitment (which is all that matters for the discussion). However, people don't always go to the best program, especially out of state. Hell even instate Derrick Stephens chose us over y'all and you guys were the national champs; it just happens sometimes.

2. If your the #1 TE in the Nation, I doubt your thinking a team won't throw you the ball. Especially as cocky as Bennett is, he probably thought every team would give him the ball 10 times a quarter.

3.
You have to understand Dustin is a full-fledged conspiracy theorist. You point to government sources and he'll say it's a coverup, etc. Nice guy, I agree with him alot, but every once in a while he goes conspiracy theory

[Gravy]

Well, the way I see it, if we are following the theory of OU tries to shift the focus by pointing to tu and consequently others, it is a win/win for the Ags no matter what.

Scenerio 1: OU and tu start this SEC fiasco Dustin brought up and we stay clear, we become the powerhouse.

Scenerio 2: OU and tu start this SEC fiasco Dustin brought up and we do not stay clear. Well, we have not exactly been on top the past 4 years or so anyway, so basically if we all got probabtion, it just levels the playing field.

I could see OU pointing out other schools, but not to "take them down too", it would be more to shift the focus or use as an example. "See tu does the same thing with their players, we all understood it to be okay. In the gray area maybe but still okay." "See A&M also has this policy, we were following the general methodology that the Big 12 employs." Thereby, putting the NCAA into the backyard of other schools.

[Dustin00whoop]

Well, the way I see it, if we are following the theory of OU tries to shift the focus by pointing to tu and consequently others, it is a win/win for the Ags no matter what.

Scenerio 1: OU and tu start this SEC fiasco Dustin brought up and we stay clear, we become the powerhouse.

Scenerio 2: OU and tu start this SEC fiasco Dustin brought up and we do not stay clear. Well, we have not exactly been on top the past 4 years or so anyway, so basically if we all got probabtion, it just levels the playing field.

I could see OU pointing out other schools, but not to "take them down too", it would be more to shift the focus or use as an example. "See tu does the same thing with their players, we all understood it to be okay. In the gray area maybe but still okay." "See A&M also has this policy, we were following the general methodology that the Big 12 employs." Thereby, putting the NCAA into the backyard of other schools.

Either way, Gravy, I said it opens the door for us. And if the worst case scenario is that it evens the playing field, well, then, I would say that isn't a bad thing. So yeah, I agree....its win/win.

[zrf2002]

Again, I'm not saying you guys are any different than any other school on this, but in 1998--just 8 years ago--you had a multiple convicted criminal on your football team. I don't know how that fits into the whole Aggie Honor Code thing, or the "blueprint" or "model" for NCAA compliance, but it seems like a square peg in a round hole to me. . .

do you really want to discuss players who have had run-ins with the law and compare the two programs. yeah we have had a few busted for weed, but i cant recall stealing tv's, having a gun and 5 lbs of dope in a car, just to name 2. i think you better stop right there because that is an argument you will lose and everyone knows that. dont forget that yall had a lot of "gangsta's" on the team over the last few years, according to the players themselves. they admitted that before the rose bowl last season.

[Pflugerville Ag]

Don't forget assault and battery and resisting arrest.

[zrf2002]

oh yeah, good point pflug, how could i forget

[CaliHornia]

Just a reminder this was about Bennett

1.
I'll agree Miami was the better team at his recruitment (which is all that matters for the discussion). However, people don't always go to the best program, especially out of state. Hell even instate Derrick Stephens chose us over y'all and you guys were the national champs; it just happens sometimes.

His choice wasn't just between you guys and Miami. I remember some crowing amongst Ags that he took A&M over Texas.

2. If your the #1 TE in the Nation, I doubt your thinking a team won't throw you the ball. Especially as cocky as Bennett is, he probably thought every team would give him the ball 10 times a quarter.

A tight end thought a team would re-work its entire offense around him?

[CaliHornia]

do you really want to discuss players who have had run-ins with the law and compare the two programs. yeah we have had a few busted for weed, but i cant recall stealing tv's, having a gun and 5 lbs of dope in a car, just to name 2. i think you better stop right there because that is an argument you will lose and everyone knows that. dont forget that yall had a lot of "gangsta's" on the team over the last few years, according to the players themselves. they admitted that before the rose bowl last season.


No one was busted for stealing a tv.

Ramonce is about to get off and is no longer on the team.

So you guys have some bad stuff and so do we. The point is that you guys aren't special. I wasn't trying to say we were.

[CaliHornia]

Well, the way I see it, if we are following the theory of OU tries to shift the focus by pointing to tu and consequently others, it is a win/win for the Ags no matter what.

Scenerio 1: OU and tu start this SEC fiasco Dustin brought up and we stay clear, we become the powerhouse.

Which would require evidence that Texas has NCAA violations. And there's no evidence of that.

Which would require OU to point the finger at us. Which they haven't done.

Scenerio 2: OU and tu start this SEC fiasco Dustin brought up and we do not stay clear. Well, we have not exactly been on top the past 4 years or so anyway, so basically if we all got probabtion, it just levels the playing field.

The playing field is already level. Why is it you think that's not the case?

You guys have been recruiting well. Heck, I'd be willing to lay money that not a single one of you would have traded the talent on your team for the talent on ours right before last season.

You guys all thought you were the better team.

Your problem isn't that you haven't been getting players because the field isn't level. It's that you just haven't been winning.

I could see OU pointing out other schools, but not to "take them down too", it would be more to shift the focus or use as an example. "See tu does the same thing with their players, we all understood it to be okay. In the gray area maybe but still okay." "See A&M also has this policy, we were following the general methodology that the Big 12 employs." Thereby, putting the NCAA into the backyard of other schools.

How can OU shift the focus from a guy just getting paid for nothing? It's a clear violation.

[Pflugerville Ag]

Oh, I guess you can add child molestation to the list of crimes commited by t.u. athletes. Heard on the news tonight that a former UT athlete (I think he name was Matt Melton) that was on last year's team has been charged with child molestation b/c he allegedly forced a 12 year old boy to do things against his will.

[CaliHornia]

Oh, I guess you can add child molestation to the list of crimes commited by t.u. athletes. Heard on the news tonight that a former UT athlete (I think he name was Matt Melton) that was on last year's team has been charged with child molestation b/c he allegedly forced a 12 year old boy to do things against his will.

It's Marco Martin. And it's from something that happened BEFORE he was even at Texas and there's nothing to suggest anyone had any idea he'd done this or would be accused of it.

By the way, to call this story unusual is an understatement. It purportedly happened in 1999 and the alleged victim reported it last year.

But somehow the cops couldn't find Martin to arrest him.

Bear in mind, you guys recruited Martin as well. It's not like anyone had any idea he'd ever be accused of this and it's not like he got in trouble while he was in school.

[zrf2002]

that is pretty weak cali. come on now.

[CaliHornia]

What is weak? This story, grotesque if true, is an absolute yawner from UT's perspective.

If it was an Aggie or a sooner I'd feel the same way.

It's something a guy is alleged to have done when he was about 15. No one for the next seven years had any idea he'd purportedly done it.

Then the victim came forward and he turned himself in.

Think about how ridiculous it is to draw any kind of conclusion that this says something bad about our program--child molestors (and all we have here at the moment are allegations) molest children then go about their daily lives at work, in marriage, with their kids all the time and no one knows. Does that mean that the people that know them are bad people or are somehow fools for not finding out?

[Dustin00whoop]

Don't forget Mr. Coke Dealer Himself....P-ville,help me out here, but its the kid from P-ville....RB...Hardeman, I think. Amazing how fast that guy disappeared from the team. Now I know how tu is supporting its athletics--its all done through drug deals...but OU couldn't ever get the NCAA to investigate them.

[Dustin00whoop]

Eric Hardeman if I recall correctly...And lets not forget Collins from Texarkana....the child molester who the sips were all over like cedric's plasma at a bitches apartment, but then layed off once he was indicted!!!

[CaliHornia]

So we dumped Collins. So what? Are you saying we should have known when we recruited him that he'd be alleged to have raped someone?

And if I'm not mistaken Hardeman was already off the team when he got busted or was quickly thrown off. So what's wrong with that?

I always thought you guys prided yourselves on dealing with similar situations by kicking the kids off the team. So we do the same thing and the kids are alleged to have just "disappeared."

More fanboy bs.

[Dustin00whoop]

I turned you back on, Cali, because I'm fired up tonight. You didnt' just dump Collins. He had already been arrested when you were recruiting him. You didn't dump him until he had been indicted...well after every other school had laid off of him. But I understand Mack...you have to give every kid a chance...as long as they might be able to help the team.

And you are mistaking...Hardeman didn't get kicked off until it was obviuos he was dealing....which holds true to the way Mack handles things...see Ramonce.

So take your fanboy BS & shove it where the you sips usually put it!!!

[CaliHornia]

I turned you back on, Cali, because I'm fired up tonight. You didnt' just dump Collins. He had already been arrested when you were recruiting him. You didn't dump him until he had been indicted...well after every other school had laid off of him. But I understand Mack...you have to give every kid a chance...as long as they might be able to help the team.

And you are mistaking...Hardeman didn't get kicked off until it was obviuos he was dealing....which holds true to the way Mack handles things...see Ramonce.

So take your fanboy BS & shove it where the you sips usually put it!!!

Are you going to sit outside Kyle this year for McGee's autograph fanboy? If you're lucky he might high-five you.

Waiting to pull the plug on someone until they're indicted for something they've been accused of is not wrong.

Hardeman wasn't even playing when he was suspended. He'd had academic problems. Mack suspended him indefinitely as soon as he was arrested.

Your Aggie moral superiority is just funny, man, that's all. It cracks me up. It would make anyone laugh.

You guys are no different than us, you've had folks arrested for showing their wangs in public, etc. You're no better than anyone.

But your fanboy mentality just does not permit that reality to sink in. It's good stuff for laugh.

[CaliHornia]

By the way, I knew you'd be back here arguing.

There was plenty left for you to say about A&M's honor code, how you guys are just the best at everything, etc.

I knew you'd be back.

[Dustin00whoop]

Keep laughing, then...I guess thats why guys like you frequent opponents boards.

You are such a hypocrite sip. You keep refusing to face the facts if you so choose....we pull our offer on Hines as soon as he is arrested, you hold on to Hardeman (he wasn't playing because he was RSed) & Taylor until its obvious to the general public what they are doing. Put yeah, your program is a class act. lets not forget Tim Moss!!!

And as far as the Public Indencency, he was kicked off the team immediately....but good try at defending your worthless arguement.

And as far as our spat last night goes, looks like the majority knows what has been going on, & you my friend, have been left in the dark. But that is to be expected from a guy like you....go back to studying Roe V Wade!!!!

[CaliHornia]

Keep laughing, then...I guess thats why guys like you frequent opponents boards.

I will. It's entertaining. What can I say?

Actually, 99.9% of the posters here are pretty good, sensible fans. You're the comic relief.

You are such a hypocrite sip.

Who's hypocritical? Where have I once claimed we were better than anyone about this stuff? All I'm saying is you guys aren't either. Why does that get you all hot and bothered?

You keep refusing to face the facts if you so choose....we pull our offer on Hines as soon as he is arrested, you hold on to Hardeman (he wasn't playing because he was RSed)

This is another of your myths:

Texas reserve running back Erik Hardeman, who had not played this season because of academic problems,

He wasn't redshirted. He was suspended for academics when he was arrested and suspended indefinitely pending the outcome of his legal proceedings. And booting him off the team pending the outcome of his legal proceedings is about the same as what you guys did on Hines. He wasn't likely to come back, Mack just doesn't like to end-run the legal process.

Mack seems to have a policy consistent with providing some sort of due process. He'll give the guy a chance to clear his name. I'll note, this kid was never a contributor, so it's not exactly like Mack was praying he'd get him back.



And as far as the Public Indencency, he was kicked off the team immediately....but good try at defending your worthless arguement.

Well how did he end up on your team in the first place? How did you guys not know he'd want to show his wang in public?

Oh wait! You mean you couldn't tell until it actually happened. . .?

And as far as our spat last night goes, looks like the majority knows what has been going on, & you my friend, have been left in the dark. But that is to be expected from a guy like you....go back to studying Roe V Wade!!!!

Have you been drinking tonight? What the hell does Roe v. Wade have to do with anything?

[Dustin00whoop]

That .1% is evidently you. Yeah, I'm the comic relief...who just happens to be the poster with the most rep....but if it makes you feel better, you keep trying to discredit me.

And you are right, you've never claimed you are "better". You just keep saying that what you do is right & what we do is wrong.

And I hate to break it to you, but that quote doesn't say he wasn't RSed. It says he hadn't played...which is the case with a RS. Granted, a RS who doesn't play, could be chalked up to not playing because of academic problems, but that doesn't mean he didn't RS. Regardless, he was a coke dealer.

And Mack being consistent is the craziest thing I've ever heard. The only thing he is consistent about is when he determines whether or not they could help the team.

He ended up on the team because he had no history of problems in the past. However, once we realized he was a drunk & a flasher he was dismissed from the team.

Roe v Wade fits in because it seems that the only thing you can comprehend is legal cases. You tend to ignore facts that are proven & try to make seperate points...for instance...us being the blueprint that I intially discussed, your school cheating in baseball but not football, Tim Moss, etc.

[polish]

His choice wasn't just between you guys and Miami. I remember some crowing amongst Ags that he took A&M over Texas.

A tight end thought a team would re-work its entire offense around him?

1.
Bennett was basically down to LSU and A&M. Texas was only in the disuussion because some newspaper incorrectly reported something. Bennett did say he liked the Texas coaches and hated the OU coaches though.

2.
Yes, A&M told him they were going to use him as a TE and WR and he was going to be a main target as long as he progressed. Also he looked at the QB situation. He thought VY was gonna leave and didn't see another QB, and liked McGee behind Reggie. Miami's QB's sucked.
He talked about it here
http://www.aggieathletics.com/pressRelease.php?PRID=11601
start at the 2:50 mark

[pabloknight]

Put yeah, your program is a class act.
Dustin, I am not saying Martin is an angel, nor Taylor, nor Hardeman even. But you guys have had your share of players that bring about bad image for your team. Remember this one fine example?
http://www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2004/03/24/Sports/Am.Football.Players.Suspended.Must.Take.Awareness. Classes-639522.shtml?norewrite200608111030&sourcedomain=www.thebatt.com
I am still curious as to how far under the rug this got swept.

But face it, you will defend your school to your dying breath, regardless of what any one player has done of his/her own volition. And we will too.
Mack Brown is still one of the most respected coaches and people in the NCAA. I'd take him anyday over Fran, Tuberville, Bowden, Spurrier, etc. Heck, you want to talk morals? You all hired a coach that ran out on his players (at Alabama) for the big $$ you all showered him with. And what have you go to show for it to date? Higher ticket prices, and a losing record.

Say what you will, but your program is not sainthood. Neither is ours, although I like to believe it is, just like you do.

[Dustin00whoop]

Even though I don't agree....great post, Pablo. :rep:

[Pflugerville Ag]

Nice post Pablo. Let's not get into the whole Fran running out on his players debate b/c if anyone thinks that Fran was actually given the option to come back by the 'bama atheltic department, then they are sadly mistaken. He was pretty much told that if he got on the plane to go to College Station, then he need not show his face on campus again.

[Dustin00whoop]

Not to mention the fact, that he has always felt he was duped by the 'Bama Athletic Department. What they told him they knew & what they really knew (about NCAA violations) didn't seem to match up.

[CaliHornia]

That .1% is evidently you. Yeah, I'm the comic relief...who just happens to be the poster with the most rep....but if it makes you feel better, you keep trying to discredit me.

And you are right, you've never claimed you are "better". You just keep saying that what you do is right & what we do is wrong.

Please find one single post where I've criticized the way you guys have handled something. Just one.

All I have ever done here is respond to Aggie claims that we're dirty. You claim we're wrong to give Ramonce multiple chances, I raise Toombs.

I make no judgment call as to whether it was right or wrong.

And I hate to break it to you, but that quote doesn't say he wasn't RSed. It says he hadn't played...which is the case with a RS. Granted, a RS who doesn't play, could be chalked up to not playing because of academic problems, but that doesn't mean he didn't RS. Regardless, he was a coke dealer.

He did RS, but that wasn't why he wasn't playing. He was suspended for academic issues.

And Mack being consistent is the craziest thing I've ever heard. The only thing he is consistent about is when he determines whether or not they could help the team.

How does Hardeman help our team? How does Mack keeping kids around who got hurt before they ever even set foot on campus and will never play a down help our team?

I really sometimes think you've got issues. I've never called out A&M's handling of anything or suggested you guys are dirty and we are clean.

All I've ever done is point out that it's absurd for you to point fingers. And, of course, it is.

Just as it is for us.

It's why I have NEVER done it on this site. And strangely, I've ended up defending your QB where you've called him out.