tu to retire Young and Durant jerseys

[Vlyrock]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3495788

I understand retiring Vince Young's jersey, but Durant? It brings up a good discussion article. Should one and done players be "honored" like this? Besides earning a bunch of individual honors, he didn't help the school much (they lost in the round of 32) in the NCAA tournament and did not win the Big XII Championship.

Personally, I feel a player should have been on campus for more than one year and also have made some irrefutable mark on the program. VY did that for them in football and has been named one of the greatest college players of all time.

Maybe it's a ploy to get him to share some of his NBA money...

[PinetarAg]

Maybe it's a ploy to get him to share some of his NBA money...


I would say thats why

[pearland aggie93]

well VY is probably the one greatest qb ever in ncaa history

and one of the biggest draft bust to

[Conan]

(On Durant): I'd be upset if it was my school, but who cares about what anyone else does?
The ONLY reason his jersey is being retired is because he was "NCAAM player of the year". That's the highest individual achievement one can get.
I don't agree with it, but that's the reason.

(On Young) Yes, they could retire his number. They had possibly their greatest team assembled in 2005 and he was the focus. I don't really think that in football you can afford to retire many numbers though. There are other things you can do to celebrate the greatest players of your school's history.

[Loftin]

Durant: of course he's being honored. He spent about 8 months on campus and lead them to the 2nd round!:laugh:

Young: Really? Overrated from day 1, but considering the way that horn fans worship him as their God I'm not surprised. Have the numbers of Earl Campbell and Ricky Williams been retired? Those are the best sip players in history, and it's not even close.

[Pumchavas28]

I don't really think that in football you can afford to retire many numbers though. There are other things you can do to celebrate the greatest players of your school's history.

Agreed 100%.

Create a small shrine of that player... Have a plaque of them up in your main building, Name a street on campus after them, Name a Hall in the Athletic building after them... Something...

But eventually, you will run out of numbers to retire... ESPECIALLY in College Football.

[aggie1997]

I think it is ridiculous in for both cases.

[whitelightnin_23]

well VY is probably the greatest qb ever in ncaa history

debatable...

Tommy Frazier, Peyton Manning, Doug Flutie, John Elway, Danny Weurffel, Matt Leinart, Charlie Ward, Ken Dorsey, Davey O'Brien, Ty Detmer...

all can compete

[KCAggie]

I think retiring jersey numbers is dumb anyway. They can't be retired forever. Unless we start allowing triple digit numbers, the Yankees will be the first team that will have to unretire numbers when they run out.

[Vlyrock]

Durant: of course he's being honored. He spent about 8 months on campus and lead them to the 2nd round!:laugh:

Young: Really? Overrated from day 1, but considering the way that horn fans worship him as their God I'm not surprised. Have the numbers of Earl Campbell and Ricky Williams been retired? Those are the best sip players in history, and it's not even close.
The school previously had retired only four numbers in school history -- former Heisman Trophy winners Earl Campbell (20) and Ricky Williams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4653) (34), Wooden Award winner T.J. Ford (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3711) (11) and Roger Clemens (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=3340) (21).

[12th man fan]

debatable...

Tommy Frazier, Peyton Manning, Doug Flutie, John Elway, Danny Weurffel, Matt Leinart, Charlie Ward, Ken Dorsey, Davey O'Brien, Ty Detmer...

all can compete

No, it's not even debateable that Young was one of the greatest. He wasn't.

He was HUGE for tu because without him they were not conteneders. He was one of THEIR greatest. But I wouldn't rank him among the greatest college QBs, no way.

[pearland aggie93]

No, it's not even debateable that Young was one of the greatest. He wasn't.

He was HUGE for tu because without him they were not conteneders. He was one of THEIR greatest. But I wouldn't rank him among the greatest college QBs, no way.


im not trying to argue but he is one of the greatest qb's in ncaa history

[whitelightnin_23]

im not trying to argue but he is one of the greatest qb's in ncaa history

based on?

if by "one of" you mean...one of 1000...then I'd agree.

also...typical pearland...you're changing your story. you started off by saying:

well VY is probably the one greatest qb ever in ncaa history

[pearland aggie93]

based on?

if by "one of" you mean...one of 1000...then I'd agree.

also...typical pearland...you're changing your story. you started off by saying:


i reall meant one of the greatest qb's
and i got so much proof i will win the arguemnet... for once

[zrf2002]

i reall meant one of the greatest qb's
and i got so much proof i will win the arguemnet... for once


link?:laugh:

[whitelightnin_23]

There's an article that scout did that lists him as one of the best...

but still, putting him side-by-side w/ others...you can't logically make that connection (in talent, championships, etc)...unless you're a sip.

http://cfn.scout.com/2/561911.html

[pearland aggie93]

link?:laugh:

young was teh first qb to pass for 2,500 yards and rush for 1,000 yards in a single season...

had the 2 best bowl games any qb can ask for...

beat usc which was reall a away game for UT

and beat a&m all 3 years

[zrf2002]

young was teh first qb to pass for 2,500 yards and rush for 1,000 yards in a single season...

had the 2 best bowl games any qb can ask for...

beat usc which was reall a away game for UT

and beat a&m all 3 years

1. too busy to look it up, but you are probably right, so that is a fact if it is right....

2. opinion

3. pretty much fact, but tu was not the only team to beat usc that year if i recall correctly....

4. during those years, lots of qb's could have done the same thing...

you will need to bring more proof to prove that vy was one of the best ever qb's in ncaa history... those dont do much for me....

[pearland aggie93]

1. too busy to look it up, but you are probably right, so that is a fact if it is right....

2. opinion

3. pretty much fact, but tu was not the only team to beat usc that year if i recall correctly....

4. during those years, lots of qb's could have done the same thing...

you will need to bring more proof to prove that vy was one of the best ever qb's in ncaa history... those dont do much for me....

for number 2 no no one did just UT

[aggie1997]

There's an article that scout did that lists him as one of the best...

but still, putting him side-by-side w/ others...you can't logically make that connection (in talent, championships, etc)...unless you're a sip.

http://cfn.scout.com/2/561911.html

You may be on to something.

:spy:

[whitelightnin_23]

You may be on to something.

:spy:

:gig:

:smart:

pearland logic = :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[c_stiles2003]

well VY is probably the one greatest qb ever in ncaa history

and one of the biggest draft bust to

Please explain to me how Vince Young has been one of the biggest draft bust?!?!?!?!
:bs:

[pearland aggie93]

Please explain to me how Vince Young has been one of the biggest draft bust?!?!?!?!
:bs:


he was suppose to be able to be the next michael vick and be able to pass? i don't think he has been able to pass but he has just been able to get lucky

[Conan]

Please explain to me how Vince Young has been one of the biggest draft bust?!?!?!?!
:bs:

Biggest? Not until he breaks his legs or somethings worse.

Still, he is really bad.

[Loftin]

The school previously had retired only four numbers in school history -- former Heisman Trophy winners Earl Campbell (20) and Ricky Williams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4653) (34), Wooden Award winner T.J. Ford (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3711) (11) and Roger Clemens (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=3340) (21).

Campbell and Williams won the Heisman, and Ford took them to the Final Four. Durant and Young don't belong in that group.

[Loftin]

Biggest? Not until he breaks his legs or somethings worse.

Still, he is really bad.

More turnovers than TDs...

He is a bust. The Titans' offense was rolling in a couple of games last year...when Kerry Collins played.

[KCAggie]

Campbell and Williams won the Heisman, and Ford took them to the Final Four. Durant and Young don't belong in that group.

You'll have to explain your logic on this one. Durant I'll give you, but based on what you said here, I don't see how Young wouldn't fit into that group. He finished second in the heisman, was the most dominant player on a national championship team, named number 10 in the greatest college football player ever (which he didn't deserve), and is the highest rated qb in tu history.

[Mezentius]

I have no issue with Young if you are going to retire numbers. I liked tu's old tradition with 60 that its an honor to be offered to wear the number. Like the 1 at Michigan for WR's.

Young made a team that would have finished 8-4 into a MNC winner so I would say he was valuable and had two of the greatest individual performances in Rose Bowl history...if he had played at A&M we would be in line to massage his nuts.

I'm not saying he's a top 5 QB of all time but he has to be talked about as an all time great in terms of performance...
QB's in my viewing lifetime in my opinion:
Tommy Frazier...the gold standard in my opinion...the heart and soul.
Danny Weurfel (yes he was a putz in the NFL...but lord what a career at UF)
Michael Vick (it pains me to put his name here but its true)
Doug Flutie
Joe Montana (Just because soup is good food).


While he has had his moments in the NFL he has certainly had way more struggles for sure.

Durant played one year and they lost early in the tournament. Kind of insulting to those that have had their numbers retired.

[12th man fan]

Young has failed to live up to his NFL draft position, no question about it. He's a bust so far, at least.

If you'll remember, it took him two years to get up to speed in college, and it will likely take five or more for him to do the same in the pros. Physically, he can do it. Mentally, I'm not so sure.

[KCAggie]

[quote=Mezentius;332514]I have no issue with Young if you are going to retire numbers. I liked tu's old tradition with 60 that its an honor to be offered to wear the number. Like the 1 at Michigan for WR's.

Young made a team that would have finished 8-4 into a MNC winner so I would say he was valuable and had two of the greatest individual performances in Rose Bowl history...if he had played at A&M we would be in line to massage his nuts.


Not true, Fran would have ruined him.

[Mezentius]

This is so apples and oranges but look at Elways career stats...I just always remember his early career struggles when I think of young QB's.

I'm not a Young guy in terms of his success as I question his throwing motion/mechanics as well as his ability to put the ball on a spot which is so important in the NFL....



http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

[85swhorns46]

The fact that ya'll are getting pissed that he is being called one of the best ever settles the argument. I could right you a hundred things that says why he's one of the best ever but I won't because you'll see through your maroon sun glasses and fail to recognize something good that wears burntorange if it spit on your shoes. The fact remains that the teams only loss in two years was to OU, and in those two years we beat ohio st, usc, michigan, and ou. When the game was on the line Vince young found a way to win. That's all you want from a QB. Find me another QB and explain why he's better. And i'll win the argument about 99% of the time on why your full of ****

[85swhorns46]

now as for numbers being retired. I hate it. They shouldn't be. I don't mind having a number resereved for players who deserve it. Like we did with Tommy Nobis number 60. Only the best LB got to wear it, and he had to be a stud and stay a stud. DJ Johnson wore it last against Aggie's in 2004.

[The Massacre]

The fact that ya'll are getting pissed that he is being called one of the best ever settles the argument. I could right you a hundred things that says why he's one of the best ever but I won't because you'll see through your maroon sun glasses and fail to recognize something good that wears burntorange if it spit on your shoes. The fact remains that the teams only loss in two years was to OU, and in those two years we beat ohio st, usc, michigan, and ou. When the game was on the line Vince young found a way to win. That's all you want from a QB. Find me another QB and explain why he's better. And i'll win the argument about 99% of the time on why your full of ****

vincent young was a GREAT college quarterback. there isn't really any denying that fact.

in the pros however. .. .. :laugh:

[whitelightnin_23]

The fact that ya'll are getting pissed that he is being called one of the best ever settles the argument. I could right you a hundred things that says why he's one of the best ever but I won't because you'll see through your maroon sun glasses and fail to recognize something good that wears burntorange if it spit on your shoes. The fact remains that the teams only loss in two years was to OU, and in those two years we beat ohio st, usc, michigan, and ou. When the game was on the line Vince young found a way to win. That's all you want from a QB. Find me another QB and explain why he's better. And i'll win the argument about 99% of the time on why your full of ****

I don't think anyone is saying is wasn't a great college QB...I'm just saying it's very debatable...there have been plenty of great college QBs...and some even won the Heisman (:spy:)...

what did you expect to find? go on a site called AGGIEFANS & have us proclaim him as the 2nd coming?

[The Massacre]

what did you expect to find? go on a site called AGGIEFANS & have us proclaim him as the 2nd coming?

that's probably exactly what he expected and why he is so delusional.

[12th man fan]

The fact that ya'll are getting pissed that he is being called one of the best ever settles the argument. I could right you a hundred things that says why he's one of the best ever but I won't because you'll see through your maroon sun glasses and fail to recognize something good that wears burntorange if it spit on your shoes.

VY was "good", just not "one of the greatest in college football." Perhaps burnt orange sunglasses allow you to see 100 things that says he's the best.

[ridersfan06]

orange coolaide:headslap:

[texags08]

15 years from now when espn does another top 100 greatest players or whatever VY wont even be mentioned, these lists are more biased towards recent players because they want people to recognise who these players are, otherwise no one would watch the program...

[85swhorns46]

Vince Young is the best QB to ever play at Texas, no other QB would be able to take his spot as the starter if they went head to head for it. Out of all the QB's to ever play Football at Texas Vince's career passing completion percentage is the best in UT history at 61.8%. Vince Young had 9,167 yards of total offense which is a school record. He had 4 games of 400 yards of offense or more. He had 506 yards against Oklahoma st in 2005. He's a Manning award winner, Maxwell Award winner, and the Davey O'Brien award winner. He was the consensus all American QB for 2005. He is a two time MVP of the Rose Bowl against two of the most storied teams in College football USC, and Michigan.

And most importantly he did all this while Greg Davis was the Offensive Coordinator.

[The Massacre]

He had 506 yards against Oklahoma st in 2005.

:laugh:

yep, that ferocious osu defense. :laugh:


gd, Fran could've prolly had 300 against them if they put him in at QB.

[Loftin]

:laugh:

yep, that ferocious osu defense. :laugh:


gd, Fran could've prolly had 300 against them if they put him in at QB.

lol

That was a REALLY bad year for A&M and we still put up over 60 points on OSU that year (despite Brandon Leone fumbling about 4 times).

[12th man fan]

Vince Young is the best QB to ever play at Texas, no other QB would be able to take his spot as the starter if they went head to head for it. Out of all the QB's to ever play Football at Texas Vince's career passing completion percentage is the best in UT history at 61.8%. Vince Young had 9,167 yards of total offense which is a school record. He had 4 games of 400 yards of offense or more. He had 506 yards against Oklahoma st in 2005. He's a Manning award winner, Maxwell Award winner, and the Davey O'Brien award winner. He was the consensus all American QB for 2005. He is a two time MVP of the Rose Bowl against two of the most storied teams in College football USC, and Michigan.

And most importantly he did all this while Greg Davis was the Offensive Coordinator.

I don't think anyone here is arguing with any of the above, and they are all wonderful reasons why tu should retire his jersey.

However, contrary to conventional tea-sip "wisdom", the football universe does not rotate around Austin, and such success at tu does not automatically mean "best-ever" staus to the rest of the world.

Just curious, how high would you rate him, against other "all-time best" college QBs?

[legelegel]

They are both way too young to retire their college numbers.

Personally I don't like colleges retiring a number for a player.

Put a gold trim around the number and let other players use it, but don't raise the number into the sky where no one can ever achieve with it again.

[85swhorns46]

While I don't like ranking players as # 1 or # 2 and so on, I don't mind saying he is the best player to ever come out of UT.

Of all the QB's to ever play COLLEGE football I would rank him in the top 4 percent. if not higher. Seriously when it was time to put up or shut up he was your man. Now I also think Different QB's call for different reasons. If you were down by 4 and had to win with 2 minutes left I can honestly say there's no other QB ever that I would want to run my offense than Vince Young, because if no one is open he's gonna get you that first down if it's 4th and 5 or 4th and 18. I would think that ya'll could meet me half was and say he was at least in the top 4 Scrambling QB's in history

[12th man fan]

Of all the QB's to ever play COLLEGE football I would rank him in the top 4 percent. if not higher. Seriously when it was time to put up or shut up he was your man. Now I also think Different QB's call for different reasons. If you were down by 4 and had to win with 2 minutes left I can honestly say there's no other QB ever that I would want to run my offense than Vince Young, because if no one is open he's gonna get you that first down if it's 4th and 5 or 4th and 18. I would think that ya'll could meet me half was and say he was at least in the top 4 Scrambling QB's in history

With a QB supossedly as great as VY - what are you doing down by 4 points with two minutes to go in the game? If he can convert your 4th and 18, why are you behind so late in the game? Why didn't he pull off those miracles earlier in the game, and have you AHEAD with two minutes left instead of behind?

[85swhorns46]

Which brings me to my whole point of why you choose certain QB's for certain Situations. you shouldn't be down when you score 30+ points in a game. But we were and he came back. QB's play offense not Defense. Just like our loss to K state a few years ago. Everyone wanted to blame it on the fact that Colt got hurt. But no one wanted to recognize that we scored 40+ and still lost. That's a Defensive Problem. I never said he was the best Ever. I said that given all the accomplishments, and ability to win you games he is in the top 4%.

[Loftin]

While I don't like ranking players as # 1 or # 2 and so on, I don't mind saying he is the best player to ever come out of UT.

Weren't Earl Campbell and Ricky Williams horns?

[Mezentius]

I'm with Loftin on this one...in my opinion Earl Campbell is the best RB I've personally ever seen carry a football. I mean he was all the Oilers had for years...it was him and a bunch of beer league dudes...

Plus I don't know if I've ever seen anyone turn the corner on a stretch/off tackle play and shoot upfield as fast as Earl did...Bo Jackson was probably the closest. It was like a big angry artillery shell going down the field.

[12th man fan]

I agree about Campbell as well. besides quick feet, he could just simply lower the shoulders and run people over as well.

[12th man fan]

Which brings me to my whole point of why you choose certain QB's for certain Situations. you shouldn't be down when you score 30+ points in a game. But we were and he came back. QB's play offense not Defense. Just like our loss to K state a few years ago. Everyone wanted to blame it on the fact that Colt got hurt. But no one wanted to recognize that we scored 40+ and still lost. That's a Defensive Problem. I never said he was the best Ever. I said that given all the accomplishments, and ability to win you games he is in the top 4%.

You make no sense, but for a horn that shouldn't surprise anyone.

You say he's one of the best ever, now you say he should only be used in certain situations????? A top 4% QB shoul dbe on the foeld the whole game, exceeling in most situations, not just certain situations.

Sure, part of the reason you were down 30 was a defensive problem ..... the other part was your lame offense, up to the point that the near-comeback began, anyway. For a top 4% QB to be struggling offensively for most of the game, that doesn't add up. Other than a random game here or there, a top 4% QB should be putting up big points against ALL opponnents, not struggling for 58 minutes. VY was inconsistent at being able to come out of teh shoot and pass effectively for an entire game against equally ranked opponents. he had a monkey on his back (as did Mack daddy) about not being able to win teh big one, until the NC game against Ohio State, which was a pretty good game for VY, BTW.

Yes, he was a great scrambler, and should get kudos for it. He is and should be a tu hero. No, that doesn't make him one of the best ever college QBs, or a top 4% college QB.

[KCAggie]

The NC game was against USC, not Ohio State.

[12th man fan]

Sorry, my bad.

[85swhorns46]

You say he's one of the best ever, now you say he should only be used in certain situations????? A top 4% QB shoul dbe on the foeld the whole game, exceeling in most situations, not just certain situations.

You got me I was trying to meet ya'll half way but even that doesn't work. If I had a choice of any QB in the history of college football do you really think I'm going to choose anyone else other than Vince Young. The guys a winner. I saw him loose two games as a starter, one as a freshman, one as a sophomore to OU when Davis in his wisdom kept calling the worst plays in the world.
But to your logic QB's magically keep the other team from scoring to. Sorry we were down 4 points against 2 heisman winners their back yard, and a team that hadn't lost in a million years according to espn in. And if you watched the game he did pull off a few miracles in the game before hand. But if you really want to go by your logic, our Defense was pretty damn good that year too, and the year before. I guess that makes him that much better. But lets be real and understand your logic of your QB should make sure your AHEAD with two minutes left instead of behind really makes no sense at all.

Sure, part of the reason you were down 30 was a defensive problem ..... the other part was your lame offense, up to the point that the near-comeback began, anyway.

Yep it's a lame offense when you score 42 points, with a back up QB in from the second series on.

For a top 4% QB to be struggling offensively for most of the game,
that doesn't add up.

I understand you don't follow Texas as much as you do Texas A&M. So your comment is pretty much wrong. We were up at half, 16 to 10. It was 23 24 USC in the third quarter, and then we scored 18 more points in the 4th Quarter.

Other than a random game here or there, a top 4% QB should be putting up big points against ALL opponnents, not struggling for 58 minutes.

Again refer to above.

VY was inconsistent at being able to come out of teh shoot and pass effectively for an entire game against equally ranked opponents. he had a monkey on his back (as did Mack daddy) about not being able to win teh big one, until the NC game against USC,

We were always told we couldn't win the big one because we couldn't until Michigan in the Rose bowl in 2004. A year earlier than when you state


Now with all that said. We are just going to have to agree to disagree. I wont change my position that he was one of the best college football players ever, You wont change your position that he wasn't any better than just good. Football season is about to start and I'm so pumped I'm counting the hours down.

[12th man fan]

Now with all that said. We are just going to have to agree to disagree. I wont change my position that he was one of the best college football players ever, You wont change your position that he wasn't any better than just good. Football season is about to start and I'm so pumped I'm counting the hours down.

Sounds reasonable...........but I would say VY was better than good, I just won't say he's one of the greatest. And again, I think the retirement of his number at tu is justified, if that's what they want to do.

[KCAggie]

I have no problem saying that VY is one of the best scrambling QB's ever. Maybe second or third, because I think Tommie Frazier and Nebraska would have wiped the floor with the Longhorns. And I think if you put John Elway in his college days on that same tu team with the same system, he out performs VY.