LOD Game 13 Season 2

[zrf2002]

today's game will be a tough match up.... hopefully our pass defense can step up and play out of their minds... their passing is VERY high....

here is the match-up comparison:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/compare_teams.pl?team1=229&team2=190

[Pumchavas28]

Their Pass Rating is High, but they are VERY balanced...

I looked at EVERY one of their games... and their Run/Pass Ratio for the most part is 50/50... yeah one game it might be a couple of plays slanted one way or the other, but for the most part they are 50/50... They make plays!

This will be our TOUGHEST match-up for our Defense by FAR!!!!!!

[Pumchavas28]

Their team is where we want to be... a Pick Your Poison mentality.... Although no one other than 2 teams have slowed down their Rushing Attack... and even then their passing game is stout!!

[Pumchavas28]

Also just some FYI... this game could REALLY help us prepare for that 1st Playoff game... this is currently a 1st Round Preview Match Up...

[txags92]

Their defense doesn't slouch either...they haven't allowed anybody to score many points on them. This is one of those games I penciled in as a loss quite some time ago, but you never know how the turnover battle might go. Hopefully we will get a few lucky bounces and maybe make a game out of it.

[zrf2002]

is there anything we can do to get our pass defense rating up? seems like we have been stuck on 24 for a long time.... i am guessing this is b/c of the loss of high level SS where we now have a level 5 as the back up, but not sure..... we are pretty good at cb with 2 level 14 players and 2 now at level 16..... the safeties seem to be hurting the pass defense... at SS we have level 14 and level 5. at FS we have level 12 and 13 players......

[Pumchavas28]

We have 3 Lvl 16 CB's.... but yes the SS & FS positions are what are hurting that rating the most...:sad:

[Pumchavas28]

we lost.... :sad:

[Pumchavas28]

We got DESTROYED 42-17...... :sad::sad::sad::sad:

[zrf2002]

dang... 42-17 hurts.... i was thinking it would be closer than that considering how they played against teams similar to us in the standings...

[Dustin00whoop]

Wow....they are really good.

Horrible day for Jerrod.

[Pumchavas28]

Turnovers hurt again...

[Pumchavas28]

Wow....they are really good.

Horrible day for Jerrod.


Yeah I was starting to get excited about JM... but 3 of 17... WOW... :sad:

[Pumchavas28]

4 Missed Tackles by the 2ndary hurt.... :sad: 7 total isn't good either....

[Pumchavas28]

WOW... what happened on this play????

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796458

[Pumchavas28]

The CPU really screwed us on this play also...



http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3797003

[Pumchavas28]

I know those who have created the SS & FS players are doing their best....

But I think that will be a growing pain for now (this season)... :sad:

Next season that should be taken care of.... our current players will have improved by then....

[Agnlaw]

WOW... what happened on this play????

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796458


A very fast wide receiver happened I think.

[Pumchavas28]

A very fast wide receiver happened I think.


What I was talking about was the stutter stepping both of our CB's did after the WR caught the ball.... They both turned, took a few steps then stuttered for a bit & then continued to go after the WR....

Made no sense at all...

[KCAggie]

Maybe they fell down or something like that. Could have been a diving attempt at the ball.

[Agnlaw]

Maybe they fell down or something like that. Could have been a diving attempt at the ball.

They got juked maybe.

[txags92]

I was expecting that their offense would abuse us pretty badly, but I was pleasantly surprised by how well our offense did against their defense (minus the turnovers). That is the most points they have given up in any game this season. As Pum said, outside of trying to recruit a high level SS and/or FS (which will cost a fortune), we are stuck with what we have in the secondary. We just need to be really smart about how we build the backups so that we get the most out of what we have there. We are past the trade deadline, so there is for sure nothing we can do with a trade. Unless a lvl 16 SS just appears out of the blue and wants to play for us for minimal salary, we need to accept that our interior secondary will be a continuing weakness against teams that like to pass alot.

[Vlyrock]

I know those who have created the SS & FS players are doing their best....

But I think that will be a growing pain for now (this season)... :sad:

Next season that should be taken care of.... our current players will have improved by then....
It's easy to point at the safeties as the weak point, and before today, that was unfounded. The safeties had never been burned deep - it was always the cornerbacks or something else.

Today however, Pinetar Willy was in and seemed to be burned 2 different times for big touchdowns -- one time he must've bit hard on a playaction.

Vlyrock had 4 tackles today, 1 Forced Fumble. He did have 2 missed tackles. One was on a special teams play and the other on a small run...so they weren't too bad.

In general though, Vly Rock had a good day and our passing did much better. My guess would be that pinetar willy needs to work on his vision, but I can't see his stats, so don't know.

[txags92]

Sometimes when you see a player who is slow to respond to a play, it is either low vision or lack of agility to change directions. When they start, then stop, then start again, I think it is probably a juke or head fake by the ball carrier.

[Pumchavas28]

I think our 2ndary is good... just needs to go up some Levels which will happen over time...

Just to re-post what Stobie put out there...

But I have been following what Stobie put out there...

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=221061

And it is helping my players do better, not just on LOD, but on all 4 teams they are on.

[txags92]

I don't see the safeties missing alot of tackles or getting burned deep often...it is the 10-15 yard plays over the middle that are completed and keep drives alive that are killers. I see it with Domingo Bryant and the other SSs several times a game where the TE releases off the line and the LB comes over to cover the short pattern, but the TE comes open after passing the LB and Domingo doesn't close fast enough to prevent the completion. I haven't watched the FS as much, but I expect you will see the same thing on slot receivers fairly often...they aren't getting burned, but they are probably giving up 10+ yard completions.

We aren't typically giving up big plays for TDs, but it is the 10-15 yard plays that keep drives alive that kill us. That is where the safety play is hurting us...they are effective at making the tackles after the catches are made, but by then the damage is done.

[Agnlaw]

Of 16 teams, LOD is:

Offense:
#5 in Offensive Plays per game
#6 in points scored
#8 in total passing yards
#6 in passing completion percentage
#4 in yards per completion
#4 in yards per pass attempt
#5 in passing TD's
#13 in fewest passes intercepted
#4 in fewest times hurried
#5 in sacks allowed
#6 in rushing yards
#7 in avg yards/rush
#6 in rushing TD's
#2 in fewest fumbles
#5 in fewest fumbles lost


Defense
#8 in fewest Defensive Plays per game
#8 in fewest points allowed per game
#12 in fewest passing yards allowed
#13 in fewest passing TD's allowed
#6 in fewest rushing yards allowed
#7 in fewest rushing TD's allowed
#13 in tackles
#4 in fewest missed tackles
#7 in hurries
#4 in sacks
#1 in PD's
#8 in interceptions
#11 in FFum's
#4 in pancakes


Special Teams
#6 in KR average
#4 in PR average
#11 in FG percent
#3 in avg punt yardage
#3 in fewest FG's allowed

[txags92]

Not alot there to obviously point to as reasons why we lose. I will say that there hasn't been a game yet where I looked at the other team and thought we "should" beat them that we ended up losing to. Our talent level is about middle of the pack in this league and our record reflects that. We should dominate Michigan, OKC will be a very tough game that on paper we "should" lose, and Recife is a team that is nearly our equal, but that we should beat. That would leave us at 9-7 for the season and probably a 7 or 8 seed in the playoffs. The deficiencies showing up in the stats are almost purely related to the talent level we have at a couple of positions. We can't change that and can only game plan around it so much.

[Agnlaw]

I just like that we're not #16 in anything.;)

[txags92]

True dat...

[Vlyrock]

I don't see the safeties missing alot of tackles or getting burned deep often...it is the 10-15 yard plays over the middle that are completed and keep drives alive that are killers. I see it with Domingo Bryant and the other SSs several times a game where the TE releases off the line and the LB comes over to cover the short pattern, but the TE comes open after passing the LB and Domingo doesn't close fast enough to prevent the completion. I haven't watched the FS as much, but I expect you will see the same thing on slot receivers fairly often...they aren't getting burned, but they are probably giving up 10+ yard completions.

We aren't typically giving up big plays for TDs, but it is the 10-15 yard plays that keep drives alive that kill us. That is where the safety play is hurting us...they are effective at making the tackles after the catches are made, but by then the damage is done.
Here's a recap of the passing plays for you, who was covering, and the impact it had on the drive.

1st Quarter
No passes over 5 yards.

2nd Quarter
13:37, 3rd and 9 8 yd pass to the outside into single coverage - Fighting Chicken (CB) covering and made the tackle. Drive Result: PUNT

10:18, 1st and 10 - 8.5 yd pass to the outside. Agnlaw Dixon (CB) in single coverage, made the tackle (nearly beat for a TD).
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3795886
Drive Result: TD (14-7)

8:47, 2nd and 10 - 18 yd gain (13 yd pass). Great White Hunter (SS) covering TE, missed tackle.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3795939
Drive Result: TD (14-7)

7:15, 3rd and 4.5 - 11.5 yd gain - Domingo Bryant (CB) played in single coverage. Gives big cushion on the outside.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796000[/URL]
Drive Result: TD (14-7)

4:54, 1st and 10 - 12.5 yd gain. Pinetar Willy (FS) was late coming over the top. Good pass between the CB (The Original Carpenter) and Pinetar Willy.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796168 (http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3795939)
Drive Result: Interception by Krew Wrecker (short 5 yd pass over the middle).

2:45, 2nd and 10 - 18 yd Gain. G Sprott (CB) on coverage, LE helping underneat. G Sprott somehow made a tackle -- probably should've been a TD.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796386
Drive Result: TD (21-7)

1:52, 1st and 10 - 35 yd TD pass. Pinetar Willy (FS) bites on playaction (or blitzes). Zak Attak gets beat inside for a 35 yard touchdown pass.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796458
Drive Result: TD (21-7)

0:33, 3rd and 2.5. 18 yd gain - Zak Attak (CB) again gets beat deep. If the WR had any agility or speed this would've been a HUGE touchdown.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796720
Drive Result: End of Half

[U]3rd Quarter
12:56 - 3rd and 10, 11.5 yd gain. Fighting Chicken (CB) leaves his WR to go inside to help double the outside WR (seems like bad defense). WR free in middle. Tackle made by FS (Vly Rock) who also seemed to be waiting on the outside WR (TRIPLE TEAM?!).
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796941
Drive Result: TD (28-7)

12:24 - 1st and 10, 11 yd gain. Agnlaw Dixon (CB) beat in one-on-one on the outside. Makes the tackle (somehow).
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796955
Drive Result: TD (28-7)

11:51 - 2nd and 10, 21 yd pass for Touchdown. CB Zak Attack blitzes (or bites on a run fake) leaving inside WR open. FS Pinetar Willy runs to help on the outside WR leaving inside WR open. Catches and runs for an easy TD.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3797003
Drive Result: TD (28-7)

2:50 - 1st and 10, CB AgNLaw deflects the pass. WR makes catch anyway.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3797626
Drive Result: TD (35-10)

4th Quarter
15:00 - 2nd and 11, 32 yd TOUCHDOWN pass. CB Zak Attack beat on an inside post. No safety help. SS Domingo Bryant was double teaming a TE with LB Puro Pumchavas. http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3797738
Drive Result: TD (35-10)

They ran the rest of the game...probably to kill the clock.

[Vlyrock]

I'm in no way the "leader" of the secondary, but here's my recommendations for people (and where they should put their skill points) just browsing through. I'm not an expert in the game and I may be way wrong -- but this can open up discussion at least.

Domingo Bryant (SS) -- Vision. It should be up to at least 30 to play safety. Maybe even higher.

Pinetar Willy (FS) -- I can't see your stats, but I would imagine vision is the number one thing you need. Speed/Agility are probably a close second.

Zak Attak (CB) - You're pretty solidly built. The biggest problem ws that you appeared to be beat inside a lot. I think that points to Agility, but really don't know. Maybe it's the safeties fault for not getting over fast enough. Maybe adjust the way you cover the defender (not sure if you were giving a cushion or not). Maybe this is also the stage where should increase your confidence?

Agnlaw Dixon (CB) - I'd move all your equipment to boost speed (since it costs more to boost it a point). Not sure where you need to improve, but it appears you were beat deep several times. This may be a result of your defensive style (going for Int's)?

CB Fighting Chicken -- look at putting some points into your SPEEDSTER ability tree. Couldn't hurt at this point to get some bonus to your speed (first step, etc).

CB Original Carpenter -- I'd consolidate your equipment bonus points to one or two skills. I don't think spreading it out among 8 skills really gives you the "greatest good" of the equipment. Use it to jack you up high in one or two stats. Preferably speed is one.

[txags92]

7:15, 3rd and 4.5 - 11.5 yd gain - Domingo Bryant (CB) played in single coverage. Gives big cushion on the outside.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3795939
Drive Result: TD (14-7)

Somewhere along the line you got mixed up on this one somehow...Domingo is a SS not a CB, and he wasn't in the game on this play. Great White Hunter was playing SS, missed the tackle, and only the LDE playing in pass coverage saved a TD. Play went for 18 yds.

Alot of the mixed up coverage plays are probably the result of vision issues. The safeties have a mix of not enough vision and not enough speed. I am working on Bryant's speed first and his vision as a second focus, because speed can make up for slow reads, but not vice versa.

I don't want to start picking at other people's players, but FC, Dixon, and Zak Attack are 1-2-3 in on the team in missed tackles. No other player has more than 2. If they haven't already, all three of those players need to work on tackling or change their style to be more conservative if it isn't already.

As I have said before, we are at a disadvantage due to the relative inexperience of our safeties. As a result, teams will try to pick on our secondary. If I were an opposing OC, I would plan to pick on our secondary. That will show up in ALL of the secondary getting more tackles, more plays against them, etc. It isn't anything we can do a quick fix on...we just need to recognize it and be diligent about maxing the abilities and development of those players and try to scheme against what we know opposing teams will try to do.

[Vlyrock]

Somewhere along the line you got mixed up on this one somehow...Domingo is a SS not a CB, and he wasn't in the game on this play. Great White Hunter was playing SS, missed the tackle, and only the LDE playing in pass coverage saved a TD. Play went for 18 yds.
Sorry, I had the same link as the play above it. Here's the play I was referring to in the description.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796000

[txags92]

Ok, makes a little more sense, but Zak was the CB playing too loose and Domingo is the SS that came off of the TE and made the tackle.

[Pumchavas28]

I don't want to start picking at other people's players, but FC, Dixon, and Zak Attack are 1-2-3 in on the team in missed tackles. No other player has more than 2. If they haven't already, all three of those players need to work on tackling or change their style to be more conservative if it isn't already.


I think the 2ndary as a whole should work on tackling a bit more... Not just those 3 even if they do lead the team in missed tackles...

The reason I say this is because the 2ndary is responsible for 23 of the 37 Total missed tackles we have on the team...

The LBs are responsible for 8.

The D'Line is responsible for 5.

And the O'Line is responsible for 1. (Obviously off a turnover)

That is a huge disparity... HUGE... and in the end, that comes down to 23 times where a WR, TE, or RB were able to get extra yardage...

[Vlyrock]

I think the 2ndary as a whole should work on tackling a bit more... Not just those 3 even if they do lead the team in missed tackles...

The reason I say this is because the 2ndary is responsible for 23 of the 37 Total missed tackles we have on the team...

The LBs are responsible for 8.

The D'Line is responsible for 5.

And the O'Line is responsible for 1. (Obviously off a turnover)

That is a huge disparity... HUGE... and in the end, that comes down to 23 times where a WR, TE, or RB were able to get extra yardage...
Pum, of those 23 the secondary have, 15 are between those 3 guys. Even if they have, say 2, each -- that puts the secondary at 14. Considering there are 4 guys on the field all the time for the secondary and only 3 for the LB's, I don't think the disparity is that different.

[Vlyrock]

I don't think the folks with 2 missed tackles should worry too much about tackling. Those 3 with 4+ should... Mainly because, if I'm the same as everybody else on the defense, and I only have 2-4 tackle opportunities a game, we're benefitted somewhere else by me being better in pass defense (than tackling).

With that said, I might train tackling for a day or two to get a little better.

[Vlyrock]

The CB's however, have more tackling opportunities, so they should definitely look into tackling, or adjusting their defensive style to wrap up tackling.

[zrf2002]

i have ZA working on tackling and have for some time now.... i want to get his speed up to 50 pretty soon and then really work on getting his tackling, vision and agility up over 30 as soon as is possible.... but i cant abandon stamina along the way..... i think db's are probably the most difficult players to create... it's not like an o-line where you can just focus on strength and blocking and rack up pancakes.....

do yall think i should work on the vision, tackling and agility to get them over 30 before i try to get his speed up higher? let me know what yall think.... i will do what ever yall think is best....

[Dustin00whoop]

i have ZA working on tackling and have for some time now.... i want to get his speed up to 50 pretty soon and then really work on getting his tackling, vision and agility up over 30 as soon as is possible.... but i cant abandon stamina along the way..... i think db's are probably the most difficult players to create... it's not like an o-line where you can just focus on strength and blocking and rack up pancakes.....

do yall think i should work on the vision, tackling and agility to get them over 30 before i try to get his speed up higher? let me know what yall think.... i will do what ever yall think is best....

You've never heard anyone say, "Vision kills!" or "Tackling kills!" or "Agility kills!!"

[Pumchavas28]

i have ZA working on tackling and have for some time now.... i want to get his speed up to 50 pretty soon and then really work on getting his tackling, vision and agility up over 30 as soon as is possible.... but i cant abandon stamina along the way..... i think db's are probably the most difficult players to create... it's not like an o-line where you can just focus on strength and blocking and rack up pancakes.....

do yall think i should work on the vision, tackling and agility to get them over 30 before i try to get his speed up higher? let me know what yall think.... i will do what ever yall think is best....


You could just set his Advanced Tactic to Wrap up.... Case in point... if you look at Carpenter,

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=43336 (http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=43336)

His Tackling Rating is pretty LOW (17.75)... but I have him set to Wrap Up & because of that, he only has 2 Missed Tackles in 661 plays but has 43 Tackles & 2 Sacks...

[texags08]

You could just set his Advanced Tactic to Wrap up.... Case in point... if you look at Carpenter,

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=43336 (http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=43336)

His Tackling Rating is pretty LOW (17.75)... but I have him set to Wrap Up & because of that, he only has 2 Missed Tackles in 661 plays but has 43 Tackles & 2 Sacks...


You are wise indeed...

FC has a HIGH(30) Tkl rating, but he has 6 missed tkls in 502 plays, and he was set to balanced....

[zrf2002]

You could just set his Advanced Tactic to Wrap up.... Case in point... if you look at Carpenter,

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=43336 (http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=43336)

His Tackling Rating is pretty LOW (17.75)... but I have him set to Wrap Up & because of that, he only has 2 Missed Tackles in 661 plays but has 43 Tackles & 2 Sacks...

done...

[Agnlaw]

Agnlaw Dixon (CB) - I'd move all your equipment to boost speed (since it costs more to boost it a point). Not sure where you need to improve, but it appears you were beat deep several times. This may be a result of your defensive style (going for Int's)?


You're right, he needs to be faster. Though I think, at 51.51, he's fastest on the roster.

Profile to Profile & stats to stats, I think Dix is our strongest CB (especially considering # of total plays this season). Still, I think the lesson I'm taking from this is back to speed, speed & more speed (that is obviously how their WR was built).

Advanced tactics are wrap up/pass/close/medium. I'm willing to change coverage style to "loose: play it safe and try not to get beat" if there is a consensus that we should try this.

[Pumchavas28]

done...
I wouldn't focus on tackling skill points for a while... He should be good to go for quite a while with 21.5 Tackling... :gig:

I'd focus on other areas, like the one's you mentioned above........

[Agnlaw]

I wouldn't focus on tackling skill points for a while... He should be good to go for quite a while with 21.5 Tackling... :gig:

I'd focus on other areas, like the one's you mentioned above........


We are #4 in fewest missed tackles in the conference. I think this may be getting too much attention.

[zrf2002]

it is getting attention b/c of the number of missed tackles for our secondary, which is the weakest part of the team..... we had 2 or more plays against us that went for long td's last game b/c missed tackles......

[Agnlaw]

We should be talking about what to do about areas where we are weakest (tackling is something we're actually pretty good at).

How do we address:

Offense:
#13 in fewest passes intercepted

Defense
#12 in fewest passing yards allowed
#13 in fewest passing TD's allowed
#11 in FFum's

Special Teams
#11 in FG percent

[texags08]

We should be talking about what to do about areas where we are weakest (tackling is something we're actually pretty good at).

How do we address:

Defense

#11 in FFum's -

This one is justified by the fact that we are good at tackling

[txags92]

I hate to disagree with the team owner and DC, but I would like to see everybody on defense with a minimum tackling of 25. Especially guys like Dixon where his speed is already very good at 51+, and he is one of the team leaders in missed tackles. His advanced tactic settings seem to be right where they need to be, so the weak link is obviously his tackling. Beyond that, speed kills, but it doesn't work as well if they are running the wrong direction, so don't forget about vision too. I would just caution anybody to not get too focused on one attribute to the exclusion of all others. Obviously speed on defense is the one attribute we should all be working on with every level up, but throwing a pt or two towards others is probably a wise move as well.

[zrf2002]

Defense
#12 in fewest passing yards allowed
#13 in fewest passing TD's allowed


how much of this has to do with the number of missed tackles by our secondary? i think we are addressing these by having the secondary be better tacklers, which will hopefully lead to few passing yards and fewer passing td's.....

[Agnlaw]

Missed tackles:

Carl Hunter:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3798438

BudLite:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3798408

VlyRock:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796706
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3795037

Carpenter:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796432

Jumbo:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796414

GreatWhite:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3795939


Only 1 of these was a CB.

[txags92]

I wish I knew what to do about the FG kicking. Terry was rock solid for the last half of last year, and just in the last few games he has suddenly gotten a case of the yips. I am somewhat understanding of it since alot of the ones he has missed have been from 40+, but it is still odd for it to show up now when he was good before.

As for the passing stats, some of that comes directly from how teams are going to game plan against us. Tech gets very few rushing TDs. it isn't because they are bad running the ball (at least not entirely), it is mostly because they are committed to throwing the ball in all situations, so they get alot more passing TDs. In our case, when opposing OCs look at our defense, our front seven looks ferocious and we are one of the best defenses in the league statistically against the run. So naturally, teams are going to slant towards throwing the ball more, especially when they see that our lowest level starters on the team are our two starting safeties and that those two are backed up by even lower level players. I am not saying they are at fault for the problem...I am saying that the combination invites other teams to attack our secondary with more passing. Invariably, if they try more passing, they are going to have more success. So we end up with our secondary being the victim of our success against the run.

We obviously have things we can improve, but we also need to be cognizant that not all stats are things that are within our control.

[texags08]

maybe the LB's should focus on pass D now that we know they can stop the run agaist almost anyone...

[zrf2002]

Missed tackles:

Carl Hunter:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3798438

BudLite:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3798408

VlyRock:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796706
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3795037

Carpenter:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796432

Jumbo:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796414

GreatWhite:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3795939


Only 1 of these was a CB.

i was talking about the secondary as a whole, not just the cb's..... out of those 7, 4 were by our SECONDARY... and i dont think bud-lite needs to work on his tackling....

[texags08]

i was talking about the secondary as a whole, not just the cb's..... out of those 7, 4 were by our SECONDARY... and i dont think bud-lite needs to work on his tackling....


He told me that he tried to lay on the guy, but he was just too fast... He said he felt like fat bastard trying to catch mini me...

[zrf2002]

He told me that he tried to lay on the guy, but he was just too fast... He said he felt like fat bastard trying to catch mini me...

:laugh:

[txags92]

But 4 of the 7 were from the secondary and 15 of the 23 missed tackles in the secondary this season are by 3 CBs.

Look I think we are all starting to get pretty defensive about alot of what is being said here. Nobody here should take what is being said personally. All anybody wants is for the team to get better, and everybody has their own ideas about what we need to do to accomplish that. The reality is that we are very likely to make the playoffs, we are a middle of the pack team in this league talent wise but are playing the top teams in the league very tough compared to some of the others, and we will be a work in progress for a while trying to get better individually and as a team. Sharing thoughts and ideas on threads like this is a great way to gather ideas on how each of us can improve our players going forward and also will help the OC and DC and position coaches work on game planning.

So take the comments on threads like these for what they are...constructive criticism and then do what you think is best to improve your players to help the team get better.

[Pumchavas28]

Offense:
#13 in fewest passes intercepted
This is an OC issue & while I am the Owner, I am confident in txags92 that he can sort that out with the QB's & the new QB coach also...


Defense
#12 in fewest passing yards allowed
#13 in fewest passing TD's allowed
#11 in FFum's

If our 2ndary cuts down on the missed tackles... Allowing so many yards/TD's wont happen as much...

Forcing Fumbles is something I am not concerned with... Even the best team has a small number of those compared to the number of plays a defense is on the field in any given game... I would rather NOT have 5 to 7 missed tackles a game than 1 Forced Fumble every game....



Special Teams
#11 in FG percent

There isn't much we can do to game plan for that... there is nothing in the Tactics area that allows anyone to dictate when to kick or not to kick.

[Agnlaw]

Especially guys like Dixon where his speed is already very good at 51+, and he is one of the team leaders in missed tackles. His advanced tactic settings seem to be right where they need to be, so the weak link is obviously his tackling.

For Dix, 5 missed tackes in 13 games. I would argue that the trade-off, 3 TFL's, 33 PD's and 3 Ints is worth it.

He missed a tack in games 2 (a win), 5 (a win) & 8 (a win).

He missed 2 in game 12 (a loss).

On of these was a missed tackle after a PD
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3572380

The other was because he wasn't fast enough
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3572278

So I up tackling (now 22.64) and prevent the 1st one.

Or, I up speed (now 51.51) to prvent the 2nd. Which happens more often? For all CB's, I would argue that speed will have more of a positive impact.

Against a few WR's, 51.51 isn't fast enough. I'll continue to put a point towards tackling here and there, but am I mistaken in thinking that hitting vision (now 25.21) next is a good plan?

[Pumchavas28]

Missed tackles:

Carl Hunter:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3798438

BudLite:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3798408

VlyRock:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796706
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3795037

Carpenter:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796432

Jumbo:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796414

GreatWhite:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3795939


Only 1 of these was a CB.

Dude... no one is saying the CB's are to blame for this all on their own...

It's a 2ndary issue... not a specific position....

[txags92]

Texags08, I can't speak for the others, but prior to the last game, I switched Rock Goodag's focus from balanced to pass. His tackle numbers went up, but it obviously wasn't enough. Windsor is just a monster on offense and i think they would have had their way with us no matter which we tried to focus on. I will probably lean towards staying focused on the pass in future games, but will still adjust it game by game depending on the opponent's tendencies.

[Pumchavas28]

I hate to disagree with the team owner and DC, but I would like to see everybody on defense with a minimum tackling of 25. Especially guys like Dixon where his speed is already very good at 51+, and he is one of the team leaders in missed tackles. His advanced tactic settings seem to be right where they need to be, so the weak link is obviously his tackling. Beyond that, speed kills, but it doesn't work as well if they are running the wrong direction, so don't forget about vision too. I would just caution anybody to not get too focused on one attribute to the exclusion of all others. Obviously speed on defense is the one attribute we should all be working on with every level up, but throwing a pt or two towards others is probably a wise move as well.


I think having a defensive player set to Wrap Up really allows a player to not be so high on Tackling & higher on other areas...

Case in Point Puro.... His tackling rating is low compared to other LB's in the league at the same level... Yet he is in the Top 5 in the Conference & League in tackles because he is set to Wrap Up....

[texags08]

For Dix, 5 missed tackes in 13 games. I would argue that the trade-off, 3 TFL's, 33 PD's and 3 Ints is worth it.

He missed a tack in games 2 (a win), 5 (a win) & 8 (a win).

He missed 2 in game 12 (a loss).

I dont think the wrap up option is affecting those numbers... The only thing it changes is the FFum, not the INTs of TFL...

[Pumchavas28]

Texags08, I can't speak for the others, but prior to the last game, I switched Rock Goodag's focus from balanced to pass. His tackle numbers went up, but it obviously wasn't enough. Windsor is just a monster on offense and i think they would have had their way with us no matter which we tried to focus on. I will probably lean towards staying focused on the pass in future games, but will still adjust it game by game depending on the opponent's tendencies.


This is a good point... and another reason why position coaches would help.....

[txags92]

This is an OC issue & while I am the Owner, I am confident in txags92 that he can sort that out with the QB's & the new QB coach also...

I have looked at this quite a bit, and it looks to me like alot of the cases where we are throwing INTs come when our WRs are going against very good CBs that are 1-2 levels higher than them. In those cases, alot of the INTs I have seen appear to go past the WR and to the CB, which makes me wonder if they are balls thrown high that our WRs are unable to jump for and are being caught by the CB behind them? Or if they are being outjumped by the CB? Other than maybe our WRs adding a few points here and there to jumping or maybe QBs adding a little to their vision and throwing, I don't know what else to do here. We have adjusted our passing game somewhat over the last couple of games and we seem to have cut down some on the INTs, but Windsor was just a really good D and we had to start passing alot to try to catch up. The results were predictable.

[Pumchavas28]

Also... here's the way I see it....

Our team currently is much like the Old Wrecking Crew or the Baltimore Ravens that won the Super Bowl...

Our Defense is Lock Down... and while the offense is trying to get it's footing, whatever we can do to improve the defense is what we are focusing on....

Agnlaw, I could be wrong, but you seem to think we are picking on the 2ndary.... That is not the case at all.... We are just trying to shore up anything possible. No one is saying the 2ndary is God Awful or anything... This is just about things we as a team need to work on.... NOthing more.

[Agnlaw]

On another note, does it not make sense that our CB's would lead the team in missed tackles???

[Agnlaw]

I dont think the wrap up option is affecting those numbers... The only thing it changes is the FFum, not the INTs of TFL...

What is affecting these numbers is my investment in speed/agility/jumping/vision/special abilities in favor over strength and tackling.

[Agnlaw]

Agnlaw, I could be wrong, but you seem to think we are picking on the 2ndary.... That is not the case at all.... We are just trying to shore up anything possible. No one is saying the 2ndary is God Awful or anything... This is just about things we as a team need to work on.... NOthing more.

I'm not thinking that at all Pum (and certainly don't mean to sound defensive). Just sharing my opinions/thoughts. I think our lack of speed in CB's is hurting us more than missed tackles & question the reason behind taking away from investments in speed in order to pump up tackling.

[Pumchavas28]

A good example of bad tackling is another team I have players on... They have had 132 Missed Tackles this season.... (110 of them were by Human Controlled Players).....

That 2ndary is responsible for 54 of those missed tackles...

So believe me when I say that I am not trying to bash on the LOD 2ndary... I know it could easily be much, much worst.... but if we can look at something & shore it up... Why not try?

[zrf2002]

why dont you (pum and the DC) just make agnlaw dixon the #1 cb and move ZA to the number 2 cb. maybe by doing this, agnlaw will quit being so defensive about any and all constructive criticism about his player, the cb's in general or the secondary as a whole. hell, move ZA down to number 3 or 4, i really dont care.... we all get in about the same number of plays anyways and what ever makes the team better overall is perfectly fine with me....

[Agnlaw]

Dude... no one is saying the CB's are to blame for this all on their own...

It's a 2ndary issue... not a specific position....

And I'm not saying or thinking that anyone is saying that. Again, I'm saying that missed tackles amoung CB's isn't as much of a problem as CB's being outrun by WRs.

[Pumchavas28]

I'm not thinking that at all Pum (and certainly don't mean to sound defensive). Just sharing my opinions/thoughts. I think our lack of speed in CB's is hurting us more than missed tackles & question the reason behind taking away from investments in speed in order to pump up tackling.


But that's just it... IMO I don't think we need to Pump Up Tackling.... Like I showed earlier... Carpenter has a Tackle Rating of 17... yet he only has 2 missed tackles all season.... He had Zero last season...

In over 1,000 plays between last season & this season he only has 2 missed tackles & other than 2 points I added to his tackling, I haven't touched it since....

I just have him set to Wrap Up & have not had any problems at all... That is my suggestion...

[Agnlaw]

why dont you (pum and the DC) just make agnlaw dixon the #1 cb and move ZA to the number 2 cb. maybe by doing this, agnlaw will quit being so defensive about any and all constructive criticism about his player, the cb's in general or the secondary as a whole. hell, move ZA down to number 3 or 4, i really dont care.... we all get in about the same number of plays anyways and what ever makes the team better overall is perfectly fine with me....

Z, I didn't deserve that. I'm not complaining, I'm trying to share my thoughts on the subject & I disagree with the apparent consensus that missed tackles amoung CB's is a problem that is more important than speed.

[Pumchavas28]

A good example of bad tackling is another team I have players on... They have had 132 Missed Tackles this season.... (110 of them were by Human Controlled Players).....

That 2ndary is responsible for 54 of those missed tackles...

So believe me when I say that I am not trying to bash on the LOD 2ndary... I know it could easily be much, much worst.... but if we can look at something & shore it up... Why not try?


Here is that team I am talking about... You want to see horrible defensive Numbers... WOW.....


http://goallineblitz.com/game/team_player_stats.pl?team_id=705&stat=defense&playoffs=0

[Agnlaw]

Re: LOD Game 13 Season 2
Quote:
Defense
#12 in fewest passing yards allowed
#13 in fewest passing TD's allowed

how much of this has to do with the number of missed tackles by our secondary? i think we are addressing these by having the secondary be better tacklers, which will hopefully lead to few passing yards and fewer passing td's.....

Exactly the point I am trying to make. Speed goes further to address this than tackling.

[texags08]

I'm not thinking that at all Pum (and certainly don't mean to sound defensive). Just sharing my opinions/thoughts. I think our lack of speed in CB's is hurting us more than missed tackles & question the reason behind taking away from investments in speed in order to pump up tackling.

I dont think TKL and STR have as much to do with the Misses as we think...

FC has a 30 TKL and 19 STR and still has 6 Misses...

I think now that everyone has changed to Wrap-Up we will see a decline...

[Pumchavas28]

Z, I didn't deserve that. I'm not complaining, I'm trying to share my thoughts on the subject & I disagree with the apparent consensus that missed tackles amoung CB's is a problem that is more important than speed.


I think Speed is something that should be focused on for skill position players...

For the 2ndary... what I would Recommend would be this...

CB = Key Physical Attributes: Speed, Agility, Vision

SS = Key Physical Attributes: Vision, Agility, Tackle, Speed, Strength

FS = Key Physical Attributes: Vision, Agility, Speed, Catching

Obviously against Michigan in our next game we can't really look at stats all that closely because they are so horrible... but the game after will tell us if focusing on these areas along with setting our DB's to "WRAP UP" will help.

[Pumchavas28]

I dont think TKL and STR have as much to do with the Misses as we think...

FC has a 30 TKL and 19 STR and still has 6 Misses...

I think now that everyone has changed to Wrap-Up we will see a decline...


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rep:

[zrf2002]

i think pum is right on this one... since our secondary (as a whole, not just cb's) are the weakness of our defense and team, it would probably be best if all of the secondary players set their advanced tactics for tackling to "wrap-up" it will help with missed tackles. few missed tackles should lead to fewer yards passing and td's for the defense.... therefore, the secondary can focus on using their skills points on speed, vision, agility, etc.....

[zrf2002]

Re: LOD Game 13 Season 2
Quote:
Defense
#12 in fewest passing yards allowed
#13 in fewest passing TD's allowed

Quote:
Originally Posted by zrf2002 http://www.aggiefans.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.aggiefans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=319420#post319420)
how much of this has to do with the number of missed tackles by our secondary? i think we are addressing these by having the secondary be better tacklers, which will hopefully lead to few passing yards and fewer passing td's.....

Exactly the point I am trying to make. Speed goes further to address this than tackling.


i think everyone but you is seeing what your point is.... speed has nothing to do with tackling... just cause we can run as fast as their wr's doesnt mean we will tackle them....

[texags08]

i posted some thoughts for the coaches on the GLB forum...

[Agnlaw]

I've never felt so misunderstood & maybe I'm misunderstanding everyone else.

> I agree with setting tackling style to Wrap-up. Dix is set that way.

> I think our CB's should focus more on speed than on tackling. Dix is our fasted CB and he occasionally gets burned... what does that tell you???

My perception is that you (collectively) are advising CB's to invest skill points in tackling in favor of speed/agility/vision in order to improve missed tackles.

Is my perception accurate?

[texags08]

I've never felt so misunderstood & maybe I'm misunderstanding everyone else.

> I agree with setting tackling style to Wrap-up. Dix is set that way.

> I think our CB's should focus more on speed than on tackling. Dix is our fasted CB and he occasionally gets burned... what does that tell you???

My perception is that you (collectively) are advising CB's to invest skill points in tackling in favor of speed/agility/vision in order to improve missed tackles.

Is my perception accurate?


If anything we have been trying to make the case that the TKL skill can be somewhat ignored while still not missing tackles... Per Pum's example of Carpenter and Puro...

[Pumchavas28]

i think everyone but you is seeing what your point is.... speed has nothing to do with tackling... just cause we can run as fast as their wr's doesnt mean we will tackle them....


Think Deion Sanders & Kevin Smith...

Prime Time never WRAPPED UP... Fast as hell... he focused on everyone of his skills, but like the old saying went...

He was paid $4 Mill a year to cover, and $1 a year to tackle....

Same thing....

I'd rather have 5 Kevin Smith type CB's than a Deion Sanders clone...

Kevin Smith (:gig:) both at A&M & in Dallas could cover & was an awesome tackler as well... Never seen as a weakness & before he was injured :sad: & before Prime Time, he was the one Dallas would assign to cover the other team's best WR & was DAMN GOOD at it too!!!!! :gig:

[Vlyrock]

I think everybody is misunderstanding everybody else on this thread. Agnlaw is not being defensive, ZRF responded inappropriately and Pum is kind of in the middle.

The points are:
1) The secondary has missed the most tackles.
2) An unmentioned point is that the secondary probably missed some of those tackles on special teams (extra plays) that the other defenders didn't play. I know one of Vlyrock's missed tackles was a punt where I had a defender blocking me.
3) The tackling skill (points) aren't important. What's important is that the secondary is set to wrap up tackling in advanced tactics.

4) Missed tackles is inappropriately being projected towards the reason we're giving up so many passing TD's or passing yards. Rarely does the opponent get 5+ more yards after a missed tackle. Misreads are the reason we're giving up big plays. If that's what the focus is on, then everybody should be putting points into vision and agility. :popcorn:

[Agnlaw]

If anything we have been trying to make the case that the TKL skill can be somewhat ignored while still not missing tackles... Per Pum's example of Carpenter and Puro...

Dix is set to wrap up, always has been.

[zrf2002]

If anything we have been trying to make the case that the TKL skill can be somewhat ignored while still not missing tackles... Per Pum's example of Carpenter and Puro...

yes that is the point i think everyone is now trying to make..... set tackling to wrap-up and this should (we will see in a couple games for sure) hopefully help with few missed tackles for the whole secondary. this will in turn hopefully lead to few passing yards and passing td's given up by the secondary. AND it will allow the owners of players in the secondary to invest their skills points into the speed, agility, vision attributes....

[Agnlaw]

yes that is the point i think everyone is now trying to make..... set tackling to wrap-up and this should (we will see in a couple games for sure) hopefully help with few missed tackles for the whole secondary. this will in turn hopefully lead to few passing yards and passing td's given up by the secondary. AND it will allow the owners of players in the secondary to invest their skills points into the speed, agility, vision attributes....

Well damn it we don't disagree at all -- just not understanding each other. Please consider that possibility, and I'll do the same, before giving me another sucker punch.

[Pumchavas28]

Misreads are the reason we're giving up big plays. If that's what the focus is on, then everybody should be putting points into vision and agility. :popcorn:
This was the next topic of discussion.... :gig:

[zrf2002]

Well damn it we don't disagree at all -- just not understanding each other. Please consider that possibility, and I'll do the same, before giving me another sucker punch.

done...

[txags92]

<<< Mea Culpa. I was the one disagreeing and saying to focus on tackling. After seeing that FC is high on tackling and is still up there in missed tackles while Carpenter is low on tackling and only has 2, I am obviously wrong. I will stick to the offensive side of the ball and let Pum tell me what to do with my SS. :headslap:

[Pumchavas28]

<<< Mea Culpa. I was the one disagreeing and saying to focus on tackling. After seeing that FC is high on tackling and is still up there in missed tackles while Carpenter is low on tackling and only has 2, I am obviously wrong. I will stick to the offensive side of the ball and let Pum tell me what to do with my SS.

SS = Key Physical Attributes: Vision, Agility, Tackle, Speed, Strength

:gig:

I would focus on those 5 areas... JMO....

SSs are hard to build because they need to be a jack of all trades. It may take a little longer to see great results at this position. The SS is the middle man from LB to DB.... FS & CB should be easier because while they help in the running game, their primary focus on GLB is the passing game.... The LB's watch the running game... the SS, he has to do both!

I'd like to say we should have 1 SS slanted towards the Pass & the other towards the run, but the CPU will expose that too easily.... I'd rather be on the safe side & have both SSs be good all around.

[txags92]

Give me another 10 levels or so and I will have him exactly the way you want him! :D

[txags92]

Honestly, the main areas he is lacking right now are vision and strength. I will always be heavily upgrading his speed, but vision and strength probably need some attention as well. He did a much better job jumping the TE seam routes last game, so maybe the previous investment in speed and vision is paying off.

[Agnlaw]

CB's need speed,
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3795886

speed,
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796168

speed,
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796386

and more speed.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=3796458

[txags92]

Admittedly, it has been a while since I compared the stats for PDs, but I thought Carpenter was either 1st or 2nd in PDs and isn't he our slowest of the top 4 CBs?

[Agnlaw]

Admittedly, it has been a while since I compared the stats for PDs, but I thought Carpenter was either 1st or 2nd in PDs and isn't he our slowest of the top 4 CBs?

Yes, Carpenter has always been a PD leader:

Dix 32
Car 26
FC 25
Zak 19
Bryant 11
Sprout 10

I used to love getting PD's but it seems lately that your player gets a PD but the ball is often caught anyway.

Our team is #1 in the conf for PD's but clearly it doesn't equal effective pass defense judging by other standings (on yards passing allowed, passing TD's allowed we're among the worst in the conference).

[txags92]

I wish there was a way to show the number of passing attempts each defense has faced for the season. I suspect we would find that we have faced a bunch, which would explain both our passing yardage and PD #s.

[Pumchavas28]

I wish there was a way to show the number of passing attempts each defense has faced for the season. I suspect we would find that we have faced a bunch, which would explain both our passing yardage and PD #s.


Adding PD's, INT's Tackles, Missed Tackles, is one way... it's not 100% accurate, but it's one way to tell...

[Agnlaw]

So, opinions pls, should I change Dix coverage setting to "Loose. Play it safe and try not to get beat" for this game (from medium) and see how it goes?

[txags92]

I would leave it on medium or even consider going to stick like glue. He has the speed so he isn't going to get outrun by anybody on this opponent.

[Pumchavas28]

I would leave it on medium or even consider going to stick like glue. He has the speed so he isn't going to get outrun by anybody on this opponent.


I agree with txags92 on this...

[Agnlaw]

I would leave it on medium or even consider going to stick like glue. He has the speed so he isn't going to get outrun by anybody on this opponent.

"Stick to your man like glue" is his setting for man coverage.

Coverage style is a separate setting. Right now he's set at "Medium. Go for the interception only if you have help over the top." This is the setting I'm asking about... the most conservative option is "Loose: Play it safe and try not to get beat."

I'm taking the "loose" setting to mean "Don't sweat PD's or Ints -- just cover your man". Am I taking it right? Like I said before, I used to really like seeing PD's -- but PD performance doesn't seem to equal effective pass defense.

As for him having the speed. True in most cases, but as we saw in the last game he's not fast enough to keep up with some WR's. I'm wondering if going to "Loose" in coverage style would help to prevent him getting burned.

[Pumchavas28]

It will, but then he will most definetly give up anything under 10yds....

[Agnlaw]

It will, but then he will most definetly give up anything under 10yds....

I guess given that the WR's for our next game don't look too impressive, I'll leave it on the more agressive setting. We should probably consider this though, for games where we're facing better WR's.

[Pumchavas28]

I guess given that the WR's for our next game don't look too impressive, I'll leave it on the more agressive setting. We should probably consider this though, for games where we're facing better WR's.


Which is where Position Coaches come into play. :gig: