Catholics vs. Protestants

[hmiles619]

Here you go curly...

Catholics vs. Protestants

So you feel that some Catholics are not Christians as per your statement that said the following....

Thats not always the case. I've been around some catholics who think Jesus was a prophet. That does not equal Christian.

Please explain

[Curly06]

what is there to explain. im not catholic. thats their beliefs not mine. they dont think christ is the son of God, they pray to saints, sprinkle babys-believin that saves them, go thru confirmation classes etc.
if you're catholic and you believe Jesus is the one and only son of God and died for your sins, then rose 3 days later then great, you're going to Heaven and have nothing to worry about.

[hmiles619]

what is there to explain. im not catholic. thats their beliefs not mine. they dont think christ is the son of God, they pray to saints, sprinkle babys-believin that saves them, go thru confirmation classes etc.
if you're catholic and you believe Jesus is the one and only son of God and died for your sins, then rose 3 days later then great, you're going to Heaven and have nothing to worry about.

-"Catholics" that don't believe that Christ is the son of God are not Catholics.
-Praying to a saint does not make a Catholic non-Christian
-The "sprinkle babys-believin that saves them" is referred to as Baptism which I believe is essential to going to heaven. Why? Because Jesus said so.

The Nicene Creed spells out exactly what Catholics believe. If you don't agree with it, then you don't agree with the Catholic church.

We believe (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02408b.htm) (I believe (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02408b.htm)) in one God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm), the Father Almighty (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11251c.htm), maker of heaven (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm) and earth, and of all things visible and invisible (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm). And in one Lord Jesus Christ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm), the only begotten Son of God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14142b.htm), and born of the Father before all ages. (God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm) of God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm)) light of light, true God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm) of true God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm). Begotten not made (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04470a.htm), consubstantial (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07449a.htm) to the Father, by whom all things were made (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04470a.htm). Who for us men (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09580c.htm) and for our salvation (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13407a.htm) came down from heaven (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm). And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm) and of the Virgin Mary (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm) and was made man (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09580c.htm); was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12083c.htm), suffered and was buried (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03071a.htm); and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13635b.htm). And ascended into heaven (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01767a.htm), sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06585a.htm) to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02408b.htm)) in the Holy Ghost (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm), the Lord and Giver of life (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01148a.htm), who proceeds from the Father (and the Son (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06073a.htm)), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01151a.htm) and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12477a.htm). And one holy (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07386a.htm), catholic (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03449a.htm), and apostolic (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01648b.htm) Church (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm). We confess (I confess) one baptism (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm) for the remission of sins (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm). And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12792a.htm) and the life of the world to come (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm). Amen (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01407b.htm)."

[aggie07]

hmiles pretty much sumed this one up. enough said.

[Burnetaggie99]

:rep::gig: The Apostles Creed

[Fxalaweed]

:rep: don't know why I didn't think to post that first:gig:

[Curly06]

you cant save a baby, baptism is a outward display of your decision to follow Christ. so no i dont agree with your beliefs.
your beliefs dont change the statement that all catholics are christians. you cant make that generalization same way you can with baptist or any other religion. then end.

[Thisjeffguy07]

what is there to explain. im not catholic. thats their beliefs not mine. they dont think christ is the son of God, they pray to saints, sprinkle babys-believin that saves them, go thru confirmation classes etc.
if you're catholic and you believe Jesus is the one and only son of God and died for your sins, then rose 3 days later then great, you're going to Heaven and have nothing to worry about.


Girl you've been brainwashed by one of those crazy religions that goes out recruiting. They're just trying to get your money. You have to decide what you believe for yourself.

[The Massacre]

what is there to explain. im not catholic. thats their beliefs not mine. they dont think christ is the son of God, they pray to saints, sprinkle babys-believin that saves them, go thru confirmation classes etc.
if you're catholic and you believe Jesus is the one and only son of God and died for your sins, then rose 3 days later then great, you're going to Heaven and have nothing to worry about.

it is quite obvious that the Catholic religion is another one of those things that you know nothing about. do us all a favor and quit making absurb, ignorant statements as if they are facts.

[Fxalaweed]

Girl you've been brainwashed by one of those crazy religions that goes out recruiting. They're just trying to get your money. You have to decide what you believe for yourself.
you don't know her or her religion if im not mistaken her dad is a minister so i highly doubt your judgemental statement holds any water :bs: don't go condeming someone if their beliefs aren't what your's are that is most certainly not Christian

[Agnlaw]

Dominus Vobiscum Aggies!

[Fxalaweed]

it is quite obvious that the Catholic religion is another one of those things that you know nothing about. do us all a favor and quit making absurb, ignorant statements as if they are facts.
I can't believe what I am reading 2posts in a row. If she wasn't raised in the Catholic Church it is not her fault that she is not well versed in Her (Catholic Church) teachings I highly doubt Christ would argee with either of these past statements. You should not shun someone who knows not you should offer knowledge not hate.

[whitelightnin_23]

you don't know her or her religion if im not mistaken her dad is a minister so i highly doubt your judgemental statement holds any water :bs: don't go condeming someone if their beliefs aren't what your's are that is most certainly not Christian

I would agree with that...

we all should be very careful in saying what "IS" and what "Isn't"...

What I know is what I believe...and believe firmly. Speaking only for myself...I know that if I'm shown to be wrong (from the Bible)...I will change...

[Agnlaw]

This could be such a good discussion, but we need some rules of fair debate (if that's what this is trying to be).

I would suggest rule #1 (because it is first, not because it is the most important:

Don't tell somewhat what they believe... ask.

JMO...

[Agnlaw]

what is there to explain. im not catholic. thats their beliefs not mine. they dont think christ is the son of God....


Yes, we do.

[The Massacre]

I can't believe what I am reading 2posts in a row. If she wasn't raised in the Catholic Church it is not her fault that she is not well versed in Her (Catholic Church) teachings I highly doubt Christ would argee with either of these past statements. You should not shun someone who knows not you should offer knowledge not hate.

there is no hate in my post. she didn't state what she thought Catholics believed, she made a comment and expressed it as fact. i am simply stating that she should either make that comment as an obvious personal opinion or be silent...there is no room for ignorance expressed as fact.

[Agnlaw]

there is no hate in my post. she didn't state what she thought Catholics believed, she made a comment and expressed it as fact. i am simply stating that she should either make that comment as an obvious personal opinion or be silent...there is no room for ignorance expressed as fact.

I get you. It is a hard thing to respond to statements of that sort with any kind of civility (I thought you actually showed some restraint that I'm not always capable of). Still, Weed makes a good point without saying it explicitly (you catch more flies with suger than vinegar..).

[hmiles619]

So let's see the sides here.... Who here isn't Catholic? Who here is?

My question for non-Catholics... Why not join the Catholic Church? :D

[Agnlaw]

My name is Agnlaw, and I am a Roman Catholic.

[BAGGIO]

Hey Curly, if you're ignorant you shouldn't talk about it. Educate yourself before you say dumb crap.

[Curly06]

i said from the beginning those are the beliefs of my friends, you cant make generalization about any religion. thats the point, you just dont get it, you speak what you believe to be as what everyone does. thats not true. your salvation is between you and God.

[BAGGIO]

im catholic, ... damn that Martin Luther.

[KCAggie]

I'm not Catholic.

[Agnlaw]

i said from the beginning those are the beliefs of my friends, you cant make generalization about any religion. thats the point, you just dont get it, you speak what you believe to be as what everyone does. thats not true. your salvation is between you and God.

The difficult thing with these discussions is that so few of us (Catholics) actually know our faith. If you really have an interest in what catholics believe, catholic.com is a pretty good resource.

[hmiles619]

i said from the beginning those are the beliefs of my friends, you cant make generalization about any religion. thats the point, you just dont get it, you speak what you believe to be as what everyone does. thats not true. your salvation is between you and God.

Can you explain the bolded part? I'm not following.

And yes, you can make generalizations about some religions. Catholics have written exactly what they teach. So generally (a generalization), Catholics believe what is written.

[Agnlaw]

Here's a pretty cool quiz -- it said I was 100% Catholic.

http://quizfarm.com/run.php/Quiz?quiz_id=7095

[hmiles619]

Here's a pretty cool quiz -- it said I was 100% Catholic.

http://quizfarm.com/run.php/Quiz?quiz_id=7095

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n55/hmiles619/catholic.jpg

[hmiles619]

I usually hate quizzes like that because they can be so skewed, but they got me mostly right

[Curly06]

Can you explain the bolded part? I'm not following.
you cant make generalizations about what everyone believes- thats the whole darn point. i said what my friends believe, and thats not christian. you belive different so what.

And yes, you can make generalizations about some religions.
you cant say what every cahtolic believes, you dont know their heart, only God does. Catholics have written exactly what they teach. so does pretty much every other religion- so thats a pointless statement. So generally (a generalization), Catholics believe what is written. Obvisouly they dont if i know people who dont believe as you do
answers in bold. is there a reason you want to argue what my friends belive vs what you belive. you dont believe the same thing, so what?

[hmiles619]

answers in bold. is there a reason you want to argue what my friends belive vs what you belive. you dont believe the same thing, so what?

I'm not arguing what they believe. I'm telling you that they are not Catholic if they don't agree with the Apostle's Creed. They may go to a Catholic Church, but that doesn't make them Catholic. By becoming a member of the Church you say that you believe what is stated in the Creed. Can you lie about it and not really believe it? Sure. But generally (an accurate generalization of the religion) Catholics believe what is written there.

[TwelfthAG]

The word "catholic" means "universal" in Greek.
The first Christian church, the church founded by Jesus, was to be universal, not broken - it was to be the "catholic" church. It pre-dates the bible and was the first Christan religion. To say that true Catholics are not Christian is laughable.

hth

[hmiles619]

I said: Catholics have written exactly what they teach.
You said: so does pretty much every other religion- so thats a pointless statement.
I say: Ok, so what does your religion state? And how is it different than what Catholics believe?

I said: So generally (a generalization), Catholics believe what is written.
You said: Obvisouly they dont if i know people who dont believe as you do
I say: Obviously you don't know what a generalization is.

[Burnetaggie99]

Hi I'm a Roman Catholic:D:gig:

[Thisjeffguy07]

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n55/hmiles619/catholic.jpg

Mine was almost exactly the same... the biggest difference was that my classical liberal score was much lower... which i thought was kind of weird

[Pumchavas28]

I just saw the title of this thread...

I thought Notre Dame scheduled some small time Protestant University to try & boost their record this coming season....

:popcorn:

[thissamguy]

Everybody seems to be right, except curly...

[Conan]

I believe that christians can be Catholic in the same way they can be other denominations. I don't agree with all the teachings in Catholic churches, but some of my good friends are Catholic and they love the Lord and serve him in their daily lives.
It shouldn't be a "are catholics christians?" arguement because that's ridiculus. You affiliate yourself with a church that interprets the Bible closest to the way you do.
I don't call myself a Baptist, although I attend a Baptist church regularly. I never felt comfortable saying that. People would ask, "what religion are you?". I would say, "well I'm a christian". They would be like, "yeah, but what religion?".
I never liked that terminology in the first place, and I never liked calling myself Baptist even when asked what denomination.
The Lord wants you to have a place of worship, a place to serve and to create a community of followers who help keep each other accountable. God works through us and Christ is the only way we can do good in this world, but we were never meant to be alone.
I don't think the Catholic doctrine is so sacreligious, I just have other convictions. So if a man is convicted to believe simularly to the Catholic Church's teachings, then that's perfect!
My point on denominations is mostly accepting. Even in an imperfect world, the Lord will have his will be done. Those who seek him will be blessed and those who love him will be saved. God knows your heart and he will shape you into the man/woman you need to be.

[aggie1997]

Based on Curly's argument, I would say not all Protestants are Christians either.

[jacruzer01]

what is there to explain. im not catholic. thats their beliefs not mine. they dont think christ is the son of God, they pray to saints, sprinkle babys-believin that saves them, go thru confirmation classes etc.
if you're catholic and you believe Jesus is the one and only son of God and died for your sins, then rose 3 days later then great, you're going to Heaven and have nothing to worry about.


Curly -

WRONG WRONG and WRONG. I was born and raised Catholic and have been for 38 years now. Whoever "told" you this information is WRONG. As the apostle's creed was quoted, we DO believe Christ is the son of GOD. And no we do not think that we have nothing to worry about as long as we believe your lines above. My family on both parents side have been Cathloic for generations and they are strong CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS.

Next time get your facts straight before you speak.

[Agnlaw]

Here's mine:

Roman Catholic 100%
Evangelical Holiness/Wesleyan 89%
Neo orthodox 82%
Fundamentalist 54%
Emergent/Postmodern 46%
Classical Liberal 39%
Modern Liberal 32%
Reformed Evangelical 29%
Charismatic/Pentecostal 29%

[TexAg77]

I'm Presbyterian.

Who brought the beer?;)

[Mezentius]

I'm Presbyterian.

Who brought the beer?;)

LOL

[AWolf02]

I'm Presbyterian.

Who brought the beer?;)


The Methodists...

[Agnlaw]

There's more to it than the Nicene/Apostle's creed. Of course, if you don't believe everything in the creed, you are certainly not a Catholic (regardless of what you may call yourself).

I think more of us are not fully Catholic. This would apply to more of us than I would like to admit.

You are not fully Catholic if you accept, practice, or support the practice (with your vote, with your money, with your statements, etc; or, omission of support against):
- Abortion
- Birth Control (we are especially split on this one)
- Euthanasia
- Homosexuality
- etc.

You also are not fully Catholic if you do not believe:
- in the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary (and all other Marian Doctrine)
- in the authority of the Pope in matters pertaining to faith and morality
- the sacraments (yes, even Penance/Confession)
- etc.

[Curly06]

Curly -

WRONG WRONG and WRONG. I was born and raised Catholic and have been for 38 years now. Whoever "told" you this information is WRONG. As the apostle's creed was quoted, we DO believe Christ is the son of GOD. And no we do not think that we have nothing to worry about as long as we believe your lines above. My family on both parents side have been Cathloic for generations and they are strong CATHOLIC CHRISTIANS.

Next time get your facts straight before you speak.
My facts are straight, I said what my catholic friends believe, how can you say my facts are wrong when my "facts" are what they believe. you dont have to agree with their beliefs, i dont either. But yes some catholics dont believe as you do. Your statement that its wrong is BS, thats their beliefs Im not misinformed. I dont agree with lots of Catholic teachings. Thats why Im not catholic. Good for your parents being strong catholic christians.

[AWolf02]

Can't we all just get along....

[Agnlaw]

My facts are straight, I said what my catholic friends believe, how can you say my facts are wrong when my "facts" are what they believe. you dont have to agree with their beliefs, i dont either. But yes some catholics dont believe as you do. Your statement that its wrong is BS, thats their beliefs Im not misinformed. I dont agree with lots of Catholic teachings. Thats why Im not catholic. Good for your parents being strong catholic christians.

Please be so kind as to inform your "catholic" friends that they need to join another club. Why, after all, would you want to call yourself a catholic if you don't agree with the most fundamental tenants of the faith? Any person who does not accept the divinity of Christ has no business calling themselves a catholic.

Your "catholic" friends are nut jobs. I could just as easily say that I'm a Hindu. I don't believe in the Hindu religion, but I'm a Hindu by golly. There... now you know of a hindu who doesn't believe in hinduism. Ludacris.

[hmiles619]

I dont agree with lots of Catholic teachings.

Which Catholic teachings do you not agree with?

[Agnlaw]

you cant save a baby, baptism is a outward display of your decision to follow Christ....

I don't think that understanding is supported by the bible or sacred tradition. The Church has never withheld baptism from infants; in scripture, I'm not aware of one example of withholding baptism from infants.

Finally, you have history to contend with. The Catholic Church has more than 2,000 years of history & at no time in her history has the Church withheld baptism from infants. The orthodox christian churches practice infant baptism. Early protestant churches (Lutheran, Anglican) never abandoned the practice of infant baptism. As far as I can tell, there is no historical or biblical basis for what you've stated.

To be fair, scripture also doesn't explicity record the baptism of infants, but in my view it seems plain that infants would be included in households:

Acts 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household...

Acts 16:33 And he, taking them the same hour of the night, washed their stripes, and himself was baptized, and all his house immediately.

Acts 18:8 8 And Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing, believed, and were baptized.

1 Cor 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanus; besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

In 1Cor15:29, Saint Paul also speaks of baptism on behalf of the dead. Would there be no infants among these dead?

Where do you find your definition of baptism? Do you mean that one aspect of baptism is that it is an outward display (I can see that)? Or, do you mean that it is only an outward display, and nothing else?

[Fxalaweed]

Can't we all just get along....
:headslap: no buckweed we can't:popcorn:

[AWolf02]

:headslap: no buckweed we can't:popcorn:

which one were you again:

current or former?

:popcorn:

[BAGGIO]

... im about to declare a jihad up in here

[Agnlaw]

... im about to declare a jihad up in here

Are you a muslim today? I'm a Hindu today, maybe a muslim tomorrow, then back to catholic the next day. Since, apparently, it doesn't matter whether you agree with anything (or even understand the faith) to be a spokesman for it, might as well take a spin through the world's religions.

What shall we jihad about?

[GuatemalanAg]

I'm a Catholic...let's not forget that Catholic monks perfected the art of brewing Beer!!! :gig::gig::gig:

[Burnetaggie99]

:gig: Yes they did.

[Agnlaw]

... and drinking it!;)

[TexAg77]

My biggest problem with the Catholic Church is that although I am baptized and have professed that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour, I am denied the right of celebrating Communion if I am attending a Catholic Mass.

[Burnetaggie99]

Thats because you must be in Full Communion with the Catholic church

[big monitor]

Pope Ratzinger rules

[Agnlaw]

My biggest problem with the Catholic Church is that although I am baptized and have professed that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour, I am denied the right of celebrating Communion if I am attending a Catholic Mass.

Why?

[hmiles619]

My biggest problem with the Catholic Church is that although I am baptized and have professed that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour, I am denied the right of celebrating Communion if I am attending a Catholic Mass.

You are denied the right of celebrating communion because Catholics believe that Jesus is actually present in the bread and wine presented at communion while protestant denominations do not.

Jesus said "This is my body, do this in memory of me"

He didn't say "This represents my body, do this in memory of me"

If you don't truely believe that Jesus is present in the host, you will not be presented Communion.

The person presenting the communion says "This is the body of Christ" and you are required to respond with "Amen", agreeing that it is true, before you can take it.

As a Catholic, believing that the bread is actually Jesus, would you hand it to someone who will not treat it as such? This is also the purpose for kneeling at times during mass. If Jesus is actually present, you wouldn't be sitting back slouching, you'd be at your knees praying.

This is the way it was for over a thousand years before the protestant reformation where protestants suddenly decided this wasn't the case.

[The Massacre]

The person presenting the communion says "This is the body of Christ" and you are required to respond with "Amen",

no sheeeot? i usually just respond with "wurd" when they say that. i always wondered why the person presenting looked at me funny.

[Aggiefan]

what is there to explain. im not catholic. thats their beliefs not mine. they dont think christ is the son of God, they pray to saints, sprinkle babys-believin that saves them, go thru confirmation classes etc.
if you're catholic and you believe Jesus is the one and only son of God and died for your sins, then rose 3 days later then great, you're going to Heaven and have nothing to worry about.

First of all, if your into badmouthing other Faiths, you have a big problem. Doesn't sound very Christian. Your post shows you know nothing about the Catholic Faith. Every thing you posted is false. Go do some research before posting false information.

[TexAg77]

You are denied the right of celebrating communion because Catholics believe that Jesus is actually present in the bread and wine presented at communion while protestant denominations do not.

Jesus said "This is my body, do this in memory of me"

He didn't say "This represents my body, do this in memory of me"

If you don't truely believe that Jesus is present in the host, you will not be presented Communion.

The person presenting the communion says "This is the body of Christ" and you are required to respond with "Amen", agreeing that it is true, before you can take it.

As a Catholic, believing that the bread is actually Jesus, would you hand it to someone who will not treat it as such? This is also the purpose for kneeling at times during mass. If Jesus is actually present, you wouldn't be sitting back slouching, you'd be at your knees praying.

This is the way it was for over a thousand years before the protestant reformation where protestants suddenly decided this wasn't the case.

That may be the Catholic's reason but that doesn't make it right. All it says is "We are more rightous then you are." And I have never been in a church of any denomination and heard them say "This represents the body of Christ." Every church I have been in says "This is the body of Christ, broken for you."

[Curly06]

First of all, if your into badmouthing other Faiths, you have a big problem. Doesn't sound very Christian. Your post shows you know nothing about the Catholic Faith. Every thing you posted is false. Go do some research before posting false information.
How is stating what someone believes = bad mouthing? So no, I dont have a big problem, I've never claimed to be an expert on the catholic faith, I dont need to be. When someone has said they're catholic & christian I've said great. Thats how it should be. You're salvation is between you & God.

[Burnetaggie99]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic

[Agnlaw]

That may be the Catholic's reason but that doesn't make it right. All it says is "We are more rightous then you are." And I have never been in a church of any denomination and heard them say "This represents the body of Christ." Every church I have been in says "This is the body of Christ, broken for you."

You must know that there is a major divergence in the catholic & protestant understanding the the Eucharist. Limiting communion to faithful catholics is not a statement of righteousness -- this is your perception rather than the reality. Rather, it is an acknowledgment that the unity of faith that all christians should pray for does not yet exist.

[BigJohn]

How is stating what someone believes = bad mouthing? So no, I dont have a big problem, I've never claimed to be an expert on the catholic faith, I dont need to be. When someone has said they're catholic & christian I've said great. Thats how it should be. You're salvation is between you & God.
No, what you did was set your nutjob fake "catholic" friends as representatives of all catholics and make generalizations about the catholic faith based on what these idiots say (or what you claim they say). You need to read your history before talking about things you obviously are ignorant about. Your "flavor" of Christiantiy has its roots in the catholic church, whether you like it or not. The things that you believe and celebrate were mostly like first contrived by the first Pope (St. Peter) or by one of the thousands of catholic leaders after him including those who the books of the bible. All christians during this time were "catholic" becuase the protestant reformation hadn't yet taken place. To call the catholic church "Non christian" is to say that your own faith is based on non-christian teachings. BTW, about that bible you thump on each day, all the books that are in there were chosen by catholic bishops and cardinals a long time ago. Keep that in mind.

[BigJohn]

You must know that there is a major divergence in the catholic & protestant understanding the the Eucharist. Limiting communion to faithful catholics is not a statement of righteousness -- this is your perception rather than the reality. Rather, it is an acknowledgment that the unity of faith that all christians should pray for does not yet exist.
Not all "Non-catholics" are denied communion. One of the protestant groups (whichever one also believes in the sacraments) and eastern orthodox members are allowed to participate because their beliefs in the eucharist are similar to that of the catholic faith.

[Agnlaw]

Not all "Non-catholics" are denied communion. One of the protestant groups (whichever one also believes in the sacraments) and eastern orthodox members are allowed to participate because their beliefs in the eucharist are similar to that of the catholic faith.

For Catholics to receive:
First, you must be in a state of grace.
Second, you must have been to confession since your last mortal sin. Third, you must believe in the doctrine of transubstantiation.
Fourth, you must observe the Eucharistic fast.
Finally, one must not be under an ecclesiastical censure.

For other Christians:
"Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law. . . . "

Possible Exceptions (this addresses the orthodox churches)
"Catholic ministers may licitly administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the oriental churches which do not have full Communion with the Catholic Church, if they ask on their own for the sacraments and are properly disposed. This holds also for members of other churches, which in the judgment of the Apostolic See are in the same condition as the oriental churches as far as these sacraments are concerned" (CIC 844 § 3).

Possible Exceptions (applying to protestants)
Canon law explains the parameters: "If the danger of death is present or other grave necessity, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or the conference of bishops, Catholic ministers may licitly administer these sacraments to other Christians who do not have full Communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and on their own ask for it, provided they manifest Catholic faith in these sacraments and are properly disposed" (CIC 844 § 4).

It is important to remember that, under the rubrics specified above, even in those rare circumstances when non-Catholics are able to receive Communion, the same requirements apply to them as to Catholics.

For non-Christians:
No (at least until they become Christians)

http://www.catholic.com/library/Who_Can_Receive_Communion.asp

[Agnlaw]

BTW, about that bible you thump on each day, all the books that are in there were chosen by catholic bishops and cardinals a long time ago. Keep that in mind.

In the councils of Hippo & Carthage (393AD & 397AD) if you'd like to look it up.

[hmiles619]

That may be the Catholic's reason but that doesn't make it right. All it says is "We are more rightous then you are."

You don't have to agree that it's right. It is the way it has been for hundreds and hundreds of years even before your denomination came into existence. If you agree with splitting off from those beliefs and forming your own denomination based on what you think is right, then you're welcome to. Thousands have.

These rules aren't to say that Catholics are more righteous than other denominations, these rules existed before other denominations existed. You don't expect the Catholic Church to change their beliefs because another denomination has different beliefs do you? Why would Catholics change? Protestants are the ones who decided to leave.

And I have never been in a church of any denomination and heard them say "This represents the body of Christ." Every church I have been in says "This is the body of Christ, broken for you."

But they don't teach that the bread is the actual body of Christ. They teach that it represents the body. Do you believe that you are holding the actual body of Christ when you receive the communion bread? If not, then you would not be agreeing with the teachings of the Catholic Church. If so, then you would not be agreeing with the teachings of your protestant church (minus Eastern Orthodox)

[BigJohn]

I don't believe the eastern orthodox religions are considered "Protestant" since their split came about much earlier, and wasn't based on differences of teachings, but a difference in leadership. (Basically, there was a power struggle and for a while there were two popes and two "vaticans". Catholics followed one and eastern orthodox followed the other).

[Agnlaw]

I don't believe the eastern orthodox religions are considered "Protestant" since their split came about much earlier, and wasn't based on differences of teachings, but a difference in leadership. (Basically, there was a power struggle and for a while there were two popes and two "vaticans". Catholics followed one and eastern orthodox followed the other).

Yes, they're not protestants. Rather, they come from the eastern Church centered in Constantinople (whereas the latin Church was centered in Rome). Different liturgy, same Catholic faith excepting a few nuances. The Byzantines have already come home to Rome.

[txags92]

The folly of personal experience rears its ugly head once again...

Person 1: For the first time in my life I met a person from England yesterday.

Person 2: Was he nice?

Person 1: Nope...he was mean and ornery...like all Englishmen.

Person 2: How do you know they are all like that?

Person 1: Well, every Englishman that I have met is that way.

Look at it this way Curly...it is a simple matter of foundational tests and logic. As a simple foundational test, the Catholic church says that to be a member, you have to believe Christ was the son of God. Your friends don't believe Christ was the son of God. Ergo, they aren't catholics, because they failed the foundational test of being a catholic which is believing that Jesus is the son of God!

Lets use another example. In order to call oneself a graduate of Texas A&M University, the university says that you have to complete a certain number of hours and be awarded a diploma by your college. So if you walk around and call yourself a graduate of Texas A&M, yet you fail the foundational test of actually having completed the hours and received a diploma, then you are in fact, NOT a graduate of Texas A&M.

it seems like a fairly simple concept to me...even if I am an Episcopalian...

[Dustin00whoop]

The folly of personal experience rears its ugly head once again...

Person 1: For the first time in my life I met a person from England yesterday.

Person 2: Was he nice?

Person 1: Nope...he was mean and ornery...like all Englishmen.

Person 2: How do you know they are all like that?

Person 1: Well, every Englishman that I have met is that way.

You forgot that he had bad teeth! :D

[Chi Ag]

it is quite obvious that the Catholic religion is another one of those things that you know nothing about. do us all a favor and quit making absurb, ignorant statements as if they are facts.

Dude, she was catering to your intellect!! Give her a break.:headslap:By the way, absurb is spelled absurd...:cool::gig:

[Mezentius]

I don't believe the eastern orthodox religions are considered "Protestant" since their split came about much earlier, and wasn't based on differences of teachings, but a difference in leadership. (Basically, there was a power struggle and for a while there were two popes and two "vaticans". Catholics followed one and eastern orthodox followed the other).

Just quoting as its a good segue into what I wanted to say.

Much more to it than that. There were lots of procedural differences but the two most important points of diversion (and I'm way oversimplifying):

1) Orthodox faiths practice the liturgy in the local language hence why you have Greek, Armenian, Russian, Lebanese, etc Orthodox churches. They differ some but you can go to any of their services and make your way through it with ease. This was a monstrous divergence of faith back in Medieval days.

2)Orthodox faiths recognize the Pope as just another archbishop not as the head of the church. HIstorically they (Orthodox) recognized the Archbishop of Constantinople as the greatest among equals but it has also been considered Jeruselem and Antioch over time.

I've held off posting on this thread. My educational background is Medieval History...particularly religious history during this period.

I'm not Catholic, I'm Lutheran.

The various folks talking about Communion cannot be overstated. It is the centerpiece of the Catholic and Orthodox Mass. It is a sometimes thing at most Protestant churches.
The Catholic church has a very strict policy on communion that has not changed. It is within the mystery of transubstantiation or the transformation of bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ that is front and center. It's really why there is a Catholic and Orthodox Mass historically. It is this mystery that only in certain instances that one can communicate with God, Jesus, the Trinity that drives the whole thing.

It is Apples and Oranges procedurely from Protestant services. Communion in the Protestant world is much more a symbol and celebration of Christ's sacrifice. It's why many churchs no longer even celebrate communion save on very very special occasions.

It's not right or wrong one way or the other.


As a side note to say that the very basis of faith on which every other Christian bases their faith as un Christian is asanine at best. Learn about the past before you bash an organization that is 2000 years old. Again I'm not Catholic, I can't take communion there (and I totally believe in the whole mystery piece) and you know what I respect that faith, just as I respect folks that speak in tongues....Faith is faith.
Catholics wrote the creeds recited in a huge number of Protestant faiths/sects/churches...read them you might learn something.

Oh and in terms of baptizing a baby that has had not say in the baptism, its because of the belief in original sin as brought onto us by Adam and Eve. If a baby dies unbaptised in the Catholic faith they do not go to Heaven...this was of particular concern in a world where a good portion of infants died very early. Thus has come down the infant christening. Again its an apples and oranges view on how one goes to heaven.

We haven't even touched the thought of Pennance vs. Deeds/Actions.
I shall now stop.

[Agnlaw]

Good post Mez. One clarification, the official position of the Church regarding the salvation of unbaptized infants is... we don't know what happens. The Church is sort of in limbo (not to be mistaken for the conceptual abiding place, which by the way is not doctrine) on this because of a collision of relevant irrefutable truths -- God is just, Infants are innocent, baptism is necessary for salvation.

[Chi Ag]

Has anyone discussed the corruption in the Catholic Church?
I recognize that they are the first denomination and everyone else split from them (when I practice, I am Episcopalian, Catholic-lite) but the way some of you are posting it seems that the Catholic church is perfect or the only way...give me a break.

[WesTxAg]

has the sandbox really come back in style???:stupid:

[Chi Ag]

huh? make sense dude.

[phatbc]

68% Evangelical Holiness/Wesleyan
68% Emergent/Postmodern
64% Classical Liberal
64% Neo orthodox
54% Modern Liberal
32% Fundamentalist
29% Reformed Evangelical
29% Charismatic/Pentecostal
21% Roman Catholic
thats funny. So it says I'm most in-line with the methodists, although I am technically Lutheran (although I've never been one to label, I'm a christian above all). Found it funny that Catholicism was my lowest. I have a lot of Catholic friends and love to joke with them about it.

[Agnlaw]

Has anyone discussed the corruption in the Catholic Church?
I recognize that they are the first denomination and everyone else split from them (when I practice, I am Episcopalian, Catholic-lite) but the way some of you are posting it seems that the Catholic church is perfect or the only way...give me a break.

We haven't but it is indeed there. Jesus promised that the power of hell wouldn't prevail against the Church... never said that it wouldn't attack.

I'll never forget when the fist pedophile scandals broke out (I think in the early 80's). The pastor of my parish brought the news clipping for the homily & read it aloud. Then said it best... something to the effect of "... if this shakes your faith, your faith is misplaced. Any priest, bishop, yes -- any Pope, will let you down. Our faith is in Christ Jesus & He will never fail us."

[Mezentius]

Good post Mez. One clarification, the official position of the Church regarding the salvation of unbaptized infants is... we don't know what happens. The Church is sort of in limbo (not to be mistaken for the conceptual abiding place, which by the way is not doctrine) on this because of a collision of relevant irrefutable truths -- God is just, Infants are innocent, baptism is necessary for salvation.

I should have been clearer, this was a widely held belief in the early portions of the Medieval period.