Call me a bad Aggie, but

[Conan]

Call me a bad Aggie, but I just want to lose a lot this season. I said it last year too, I just wanted to lose so that there was NO way Coach Fran could keep his job. I've been against him since I got here, and I just know he will always be a loser. Losing more now rather than just hanging in there will help our team win more sooner. I kind of want Baylor to beat us this week.
I know these feelings are not fair to our players, but I think they will be alright in the long run. Let's face it, we don't have the best players in the Big XII. Look at the all-big XII awards for the last few years. Players like Martellus Bennett, Chris Harrington, J-Train and Chris Alexander will get drafted and have a chance to play at least some pro football. Other guys will have a better chance under a coach who can use them better. Our defense is slow, but at the same time more poorly coached than physically outmatched.
So, anyone else mind losing now than losing again for the next 2 years?

[CopeIt]

There is no way Fran keeps his job anyways. You are a bad aggie for wanting us to lose.

[Dustin00whoop]

YOU'RE A HORRIBLE AGGIE. Please turn in your ring, if you actually have one. :mad:

[CopeIt]

a ring does not, an aggie, make

[Conan]

There is no way Fran keeps his job anyways. You are a bad aggie for wanting us to lose.

I disagree, not with the bad aggie part, but if Fran wins 8 games I think the pressure will AGAIN not be heavy enough. 8 wins is awful, but he's still here even with embarrassing games every season. I just want to make sure he leaves.

I don't have a ring. I can't afford one, so my parents will buy it for me when I graduate.

[Foot Wedge]

I don't have a ring. I thought this is why this site came to be. :wow:

B.C.

[Dustin00whoop]

Never said it did, but one who thinks that way shouldn't be allowed to wear the ring.

[Dustin00whoop]

I disagree, not with the bad aggie part, but if Fran wins 8 games I think the pressure will AGAIN not be heavy enough. 8 wins is awful, but he's still here even with embarrassing games every season. I just want to make sure he leaves.

I don't have a ring. I can't afford one, so my parents will buy it for me when I graduate.

Hopefully, you either grow up, or you parents wise up before you graduate.

[KCAggie]

I want Fran to prove me wrong. I don't care who the coach is, I would never hope for the Aggies to lose...period.

[CoolaidWade]

Hopefully, you either grow up, or you parents wise up before you graduate.

Right, because all kids have 400 bucks to spend on a ring. Give him a break.

[The Massacre]

you are a bad Aggie. there is no denying or doubting that. http://www.aggiefans.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif

if there is any fairness in this world you will decide to transfer 1 hour short of getting your Ring.

[Dustin00whoop]

Right, because all kids have 400 bucks to spend on a ring. Give him a break.

That wasn't what I was referring to, Wade. I was saying that with his attitude he doesn't deserve a ring. And that hopefully, he either grows up--changes his attitude--or his parents wise up--decide not to buy him a ring--by the time he graduates. If had nothing to do with how much money the kid has.

[CopeIt]

He was referring to the parents not paying for the ring because he doesn't deserve it, not because a parent shouldn't buy a ring.

Besides, the rings cost $690 something this last semester for 10k/no diamond

[Dustin00whoop]

He was referring to the parents not paying for the ring because he doesn't deserve it, not because a parent shouldn't buy a ring.

Besides, the rings cost $690 something this last semester for 10k/no diamond

Thanks for understanding.

Wow....I paid $330 for my ring in '98.

[CoolaidWade]

I have a 10k/no diamond. $311.00. Which my dad bought. :wow:

[GuatemalanAg]

Cmon Conan, you don't really mean it...Coach Fran has turned you against your own team??? :huh: If so, he truly is the Aggie Anti-Christ!!!

[whitelightnin_23]

sad, sad...bad, bad Aggie

hopefully you will learn what it means to be an Aggie by the time you graduate...

:gig:

[CBag]

:sad:

[phatbc]

Ok wait.

Of course its un-Aggie to want the team to lose. As much as I want Fran gone now, I want our team to win out, that would make everyone happy. I think the problem is, people know Fran won't win out, so they want him gone asap. They realize if he wins just enough, maybe we can't justify getting rid of him, which could continue mediocrity when we could be improving NOW, or in coming seasons. This senario would in fact be worse for the program, so a sacrifice of one year could be better in the long run. Of course if the "Fran could be staying" assumption is wrong, then the argument is pointless. BUT, I can at least maybe see what he is talking about. Maybe as a solution, CONAN should just adopt the, "I hope Fran resigns and takes his staff with him, and we win out, and get a great coach next year." Thats a true win-win situation. :popcorn:

[KCAggie]

I just think having a 4 or 5 win season to ensure Fran getting fired will set our program back just like when Fran took over in the first place. Our recruiting will suck for a couple of years which will take like 4 years to get over.

[phatbc]

^
that could definitely be true. There are so many perceptions and factors involved with this whole process, so its tough to know until it happens. I think a lot of people just have the feeling that 8-4 might force Byrne to keep him. But I trust in Byrne to look at the whole body of work, so lets go out and win, and let him take care of us like he has with every other sport:gig:

[KCAggie]

I'm actually one of the few that would be fine with keeping him with an 8 win season. At least he has got us to back to back winning seasons which I think is the biggest hurdle for our team right now. An 8 win season could easily be backed up with a 10 to 11 win season next year.

[phatbc]

you know time will tell. I mean he won 10 games in the freaking SEC. But I am becoming increasingly skeptical. It seems like we follow up winning seasons with losing ones. 03 (losing) 04 (winning) 05 (losing) 06 (winning)...

[Loftin]

Conan is a fair weather fan. He is either 100% happy or 100% mad, with no in between. If his team is losing, he gives up on them completely. During halftime of the basketball game @Kansas last year, he told me how we were overrated and how we sucked. I told him that we were playing ok, and that a couple of lucky breaks could send it back our way. He claims that the '04 Colorado game(which we won) was the worst game he's ever seen in his life.

[phatbc]

^
well thats pretty ridiculous, then

[Dustin00whoop]

I just think having a 4 or 5 win season to ensure Fran getting fired will set our program back just like when Fran took over in the first place. Our recruiting will suck for a couple of years which will take like 4 years to get over.

I disagree, because there is one huge difference. Groff allowed RC to hang around too long & by the type a change was made, the football team was talent depleted. Fran has actually brought in some very talented players--he just hasn't done anything with them. If you fire him at the end of this season, someone could come in, take this team over & contend for the Big XII South title in '09. (On a side note--next year is going to suck no matter who the coach is--losing way too many starters. Next year is going to be a learning year, but we will lose. Lets get a new coach in after this season, before Fran has an opportunity to screw them up too.)

[GSZ94]

... I just want to lose a lot this season. ... I just wanted to lose so that there was NO way Coach Fran could keep his job. ... Losing more now rather than just hanging in there will help our team win more sooner. ... I kind of want Baylor to beat us this week....

Conan, no Aggie should ever want to see the team lose under any circumstances. Our players deserve our support - 12th Man? Keep in mind that if fran is really doing that inept of a job, the losses needed to make a change will take care of themselves. Unfortunately "he" is and "they" are.

[muybonita]

This thread proves what I thought all along. TexAgs.com DBA Aggiefans.com. One and the same. The more you boys deny it, the more I find it true.

Everybody still have their heads stuck in the sand around here.

Have a good day gentlemen.

[Dustin00whoop]

This thread proves what I thought all along. TexAgs.com DBA Aggiefans.com. One and the same. The more you boys deny it, the more I find it true.

Everybody still have their heads stuck in the sand around here.

Have a good day gentlemen.

GTFO, dude!

[phatbc]

^
lol...nice troll bonita....had me going for awhile :laugh:

[Stobie]

:rep-: :hiss: This thread!

[whitelightnin_23]

:rep-: to muybonita...I suggest everyone else do the same...

but it's completely up to you.

[The Massacre]

This thread proves what I thought all along. TexAgs.com DBA Aggiefans.com. One and the same. The more you boys deny it, the more I find it true.

Everybody still have their heads stuck in the sand around here.

Have a good day gentlemen.

another great post by muybonita. :bored: it's expected though. thanks again for playing muy.

let's hope this is just a troll post, but that would be hoping for a lot given the quality of the rest of your posts.

[Conan]

Let me just get a few things straight. First off coach Fran is not a great recruiter anyway. We might have better recruiting right off the bat from a better coach. Also his players don't seem to be well coached, so the recruits don't make it to the pros. We need to re-establish our program as a football school. Also better to take a hit now than 2 years when Fran is definetly gone.

Secondly, I'm just saying that the Aggies (players, fans, program) will benefit more now and in the long run by finding a way to get rid of Fran. If we lose this game we don't have to worry about having another Frantastic season again.

Thirdly, everything Loftin said is either 100% innaccurate or almost entirely misquoted/exaggerated. I hated watching the Colorado game in the stands because it was a tough game to watch. We were freshmen back then. I thouroughly enjoyed the outcome.

Fourth, I understand it's not pleasent to admit I want to see us lose a bit this year. I'm not a fairweather fan, I just know we need be shaken up to come back on the field and win again in the future.

Lastly, that being said I never stood by Fran but I wanted him to prove me wrong year after year. The guy needs to lose now rather than later. That way the Ags can move on. Maybe if we win all of our home games and lose our road games. I go to every game, so I want to see the Aggies win, our home field advantage would be upheld, we'd beat tu, and coach Fran would be fired. Perfect.

[The Massacre]

1.Fran can recruit. u are a fool to think otherwise. player development is not the same thing as recruiting.2. u are still a bad Aggie for wanting the team to lose. spin it however u like.

[Loftin]

Thirdly, everything Loftin said is either 100% innaccurate or almost entirely misquoted/exaggerated. I hated watching the Colorado game in the stands because it was a tough game to watch. We were freshmen back then. I thouroughly enjoyed the outcome.

Exactly what was inaccurate? I remember being excited after that Colorado game, and the words "I don't care" came out of your mouth several times, because the game wasn't fun to watch. You thought we'd win by 20+, but instead we needed 4th quarter heroics from McNeal and a strip by Foliaki in OT to win.

1.Fran can recruit. u are a fool to think otherwise. player development is not the same thing as recruiting.

I've had that argument with Conan numerous times. He swears that our players are pure crap, unless their last name is Bennett.

[CoolaidWade]

I'm not defending Conan at all but can see where he is thinking. I'm curious to see how this season is going to play out but if you were to ask me right now, at this moment in time, what the best solution for our program is I'll tell you it's to get rid of Fran. And if he wins the next 80% games he won't get fired. Trust me, he won't get fired because of the money involved but at the same time I'm convinced he won't take us to the next level.

So I can see how we need to lose some games for the long term effects of the program.

I have a hard time seeing us lose no matter what so I can't defend anyone wanting us to lose but at the same time....... If we get blown away by Tech, Nebraska, OU, and Texas man..... Fran needs to go. That's all there is too it.

Conan is just brining up a Catch 22 situation for us bleeding Maroon. I can't approve what he's saying but at the same time..............

[Conan]

1.Fran can recruit. u are a fool to think otherwise. player development is not the same thing as recruiting.2. u are still a bad Aggie for wanting the team to lose. spin it however u like.

1.) Fran is not a great recruiter. I'll stand by that statement. I didn't say he couldn't recruit or was bad, but not by any means a great recruiter. Even in RCs last 2 seasons where he started losing progress he still got 5 star playmakers with every year. Not saying RC is a great recruiter, but I think some other future coach could easily be a better recruiter than Fran. Frans best recruiting years were when he first came over and needed like 30 players every season. Someone else could do the same. Then keep it up.

2.) I know I might be acting like a bad Aggie, but I'm just fed up with being a mildly mentioned team every year. We have to have a SHAKEUP. This is the only way I see it happening.

[Dustin00whoop]

1.) Fran is not a great recruiter. I'll stand by that statement. I didn't say he couldn't recruit or was bad, but not by any means a great recruiter. Even in RCs last 2 seasons where he started losing progress he still got 5 star playmakers with every year. Not saying RC is a great recruiter, but I think some other future coach could easily be a better recruiter than Fran. Frans best recruiting years were when he first came over and needed like 30 players every season. Someone else could do the same. Then keep it up.

2.) I know I might be acting like a bad Aggie, but I'm just fed up with being a mildly mentioned team every year. We have to have a SHAKEUP. This is the only way I see it happening.

You obviously don't follow recruiting very much or you just don't understand it. If you get a 5 star player & do nothing but surround him by 2 & 3 stars, you aren't a good recruiter. You convinced one great kid to come play for.

If you recruit 7, 5 star athletes on the DL but you don't get any kids in the secondary or at LB, you aren't a good recruiter.

Fran's recruiting has made this the most complete 2 & 3 deep that we have seen since I was in school. Granted, he has done much with those players, but he has built up some talented depth. To take it a step further, see my post at the top of page 2.

And again, spin it however you want....but if you want your team to lose, you are a bad fan....which makes you a horrible Aggie.....but its obvious that you don't care. Change your avatar to the Baylor logo or something, since you want them to beat us so badly.

[mlp1985]

what are u talking about. Fran is doing a hell of a job recruiting. freaking mike goodson, j lane, the bennets, mcgee, bryant, exc. what are we like ranked 7th in the country for are next recruiting class. the reason why we havent had any players drafted because they are not frans players. This is pretty much his first recruiting class with all his redshirts this year as there senior year. Your rediculous if you say fran can not recruit!!!

[whitelightnin_23]

bad aggie but

[phatbc]

Conan is just brining up a Catch 22 situation for us bleeding Maroon. I can't approve what he's saying but at the same time..............exactly, thats what i was saying in my first post.

I mean if we had a crystal ball and saw we went 6-6 this year, fran was fired, we got someone awesome and won the b12 in 2 years, we would be thankful that we lost because it meant fran was gone, and allowed us our opportunities. But you don't want them to lose, because they are fellow students, fellow Aggies, and they work hard for us to enjoy football. We would rather see them win, but we know the situation and its possible outcomes.

[Conan]

exactly, thats what i was saying in my first post.

I mean if we had a crystal ball and saw we went 6-6 this year, fran was fired, we got someone awesome and won the b12 in 2 years, we would be thankful that we lost because it meant fran was gone, and allowed us our opportunities. But you don't want them to lose, because they are fellow students, fellow Aggies, and they work hard for us to enjoy football. We would rather see them win, but we know the situation and its possible outcomes.

I don't need a crystal ball.

[Vlyrock]

I'm just curious....but if Fran is able to win (and therefore stick around)...why couldn't he continue to win?

He went 9-3 last year, considering he needs to go 9-3 this year to stick around, back to back 9 win seasons (especially given our schedule this year) is good. So why is it bad if he wins and stays?

I guess the assumption is he'll do enough to stay and then not win later?

[Stobie]

I think its sorta sad how people throw away a season at the first sign of struggle...

Yah we lost... we lost big, GET OVER IT!

If we ever plan to be successful and a contender we need to forget about these losses, learn from them and move on. If the fans (dumbarses) cant do it, why do we expect our players to do it? If the fans cannot support the coach and staff, are the fans hypocritcal to think that the players should.

Pathetic excuse for fans if you want to lose....

I am so sick of this mentality, yes I want to win but wanting to lose is just how I guess lesser individuals think. If we fired every coach because of losing then our program would be in shambles because we didnt have faith and our players will do the same and this program day in and day out will get beat by the lesser teams.

We have a hell of a program and an established coach that (last game I did not agree with) can recruit and put us in a good situation. Have a little faith, thats all it takes a little.

Now... Im done :bored:

[MarylandAG]

I never want my Aggie's to lose, that is just bad bull! Having said that, I understand the first poster's line of thinking. Let me see if I can salvage this thread, and try to get at the heart of the matter of what I think the jist of the poster's concerns are..

Give me a cutoff point, wins/loses where you think Fran stay and goes.

My prediction if we go 6-6 he will be gone, anything better than that is a winning record and will be the default reason for him staying. Now please note, I'm not saying this is right or wrong and not agreeing to it, just saying that 6-6 and below and Fran will be gone and if at that record he is somehow retained BB has a marketing nightmare on his hands. So what are everyone else's thoughts.

Oh and Stobie, I just saw your post and I'm probably included in your generalization, for me personally it's not that we lost one game, it's the WAY and the REASON we lost! Carry on folks!

[Stobie]

Oh and Stobie, I just saw your post and I'm probably included in your generalization, for me personally it's not that we lost one game, it's the WAY and the REASON we lost! Carry on folks!

Im not saying one person is involved in my generalization, as a whole... I am just tired of hearing about this and that... fire the coach, coach sux, ect....

Now alot of it is bc of texhags I will admit but when come here for a break from that crap, I see the same thing... just get old (mind you so does the losses), but its like we lost... we will never be national champions... Like that was a viable option anyway. Lets win the BIG XII first and then think about that... how about lets win against Baylor then think about OSU, then so on... One game at a time folks.

[Mezentius]

Wow we're really having this discussion really?

[FrionaAg1990]

I think it took great courage for Conan to post his opinion knowing he would be crucified by the "real Aggies" on this site. I don't agree with his statement. I support all Aggies to the end. But Coach Fran is no Aggie. The players are Aggies. So how do we best support them?

I think we can support our teams and not support the coaching staff and still be good Ags. All of this is a result of 5 years of frustration and dissappointment.

[The Massacre]

I think it took great courage for Conan to post his opinion knowing he would be crucified by the "real Aggies" on this site.

i don't think it did because he doesn't seem to think there is anything wrong with the way he thinks and his opinion on this issue. that is what is sad.

[Dustin00whoop]

I think it took great courage for Conan to post his opinion knowing he would be crucified by the "real Aggies" on this site. I don't agree with his statement. I support all Aggies to the end. But Coach Fran is no Aggie. The players are Aggies. So how do we best support them?

I think we can support our teams and not support the coaching staff and still be good Ags. All of this is a result of 5 years of frustration and dissappointment.

How are you supporting the team if you want them to lose?

[FrionaAg1990]

Does Mass ever consider that he may be wrong? That most people don't see things like he does? Saying all "real Ags" think like I do leads to disaster. Pretending there are no problems does not solve them.

[The Massacre]

Does Mass ever consider that he may be wrong? That most people don't see things like he does? Saying all "real Ags" think like I do leads to disaster. Pretending there are no problems does not solve them.

i KNOW most people don't think like me. i DO sometimes consider that i might be wrong, but then usually quickly dismiss the thought because it is just silly thinking.

you should definitely pick a different thread to make this point about me on. i have made some crazy statements and taken some wild positions on lots of other threads, but i'm NOT wrong on this one.


ALSO....
where did i say that 'all "real Ags" think like i do'?

i said it was sad that Conan didn't see any problem with his thinking (he said he wants the team to lose). real Ags wouldn't think like that. there is no way to deny that. i am just saying no real Ags think like Conan. :cool:

[Pumchavas28]

ftp for muyfea

[whitelightnin_23]

I think it took great courage for Conan to post his opinion knowing he would be crucified by the "real Aggies" on this site.

"Great courage"...that's an insult to anyone who ever has had "great courage"...

I just find that comment comical...:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Pumchavas28]

I agree..... What kind of courage does it take to post something on a message board for people you will never meet to read????

[The Massacre]

I agree..... What kind of courage does it take to post something on a message board for people you will never meet to read????

similar amount of courage that it would take to fight a lion with your bare hands, i would imagine. ;)

[Pumchavas28]

This thread reminds me of William Wallace........



They May Take Our RB's..... But They'll Never Take OUR LOSSSSEEESSSSSSS

[aggie1997]

For some reason I have an urge to paint my face blue and moon someone.

[Gravy]

:popcorn:

[DCAggie]

Being a good Aggie includes being part of the 12th Man. And hoping that the Aggies lose is kinda the opposite of being part or being a good member of the 12th Man. Seems pretty obvious that rooting against the Aggies means that you are not a good Aggie. Seems cut and dry to me.

Bring on Baylor and the Big 12.

[12th man fan]

I want Fran to go, but I want us to win more.

BTHO Baylor.

[phatbc]

Most of us want us to just win. That'll cure everything.

Most of us don't want us to lose, regardless of the coach.

Most of us are unsure if Fran is the right man for the job.

Most of us are unsure what will happen to him given various scenarios of outcomes.

And all of this culminates into wondering what outcome is best for us to achieve all our goals. Its not an easy thing to think about.

[Vlyrock]

It's easy -- win and we don't have to worry about anything. If Fran wins, I'm sure everybody will get over their feelings and be okay with him sticking around (since we're winning). To wish for us to lose is ridiculous...

[aggie1997]

I don't want us to lose, but I do want someone that I feel confident about leading our team. I thought Fran was a great hire and was very excited about him coming to Aggieland. However, over the past 5 years he has lost a lot of my confidence. Just doesn't seem to have the fire in him to lead this team. I wish he would produce what everyone thought he was capable of.

[DCAggie]

Most of us want us to just win. That'll cure everything.

Most of us don't want us to lose, regardless of the coach.

Most of us are unsure if Fran is the right man for the job.

Most of us are unsure what will happen to him given various scenarios of outcomes.

And all of this culminates into wondering what outcome is best for us to achieve all our goals. Its not an easy thing to think about.


Wondering about what will happen is a lot different than actually wanting the Aggies to lose. Regardless of the coach I would wonder about the remaining games. Even if A&M shut out their 4 previous opponents, averaged 50 points a game, I would wonder. But also, regardless of the coach, I want A&M to win.

The whole idea of hoping that we lose so we can get a new coach is just some kinda wierd circular logic. If we lose, then we'll get a new coach, so I hope we lose. But if we win, we don't get a new coach. Probably true. Of course, if we win, then why do you care who the coach is. Unless Fran spit on you while you were walking around campus, then hope he wins. If not, it will be fixed.

If your desire to see A&M win or lose actually affected the game, then I could see that, but since your role in all of this is passive, and the whole point of this is to win w/ whatever coach we have, then you've got your logic all mixed up. What you say or do or whether or not you want the win doesn't affect the outcome. So why wouldn't you cheer for the team and hope for its success?

[FrionaAg1990]

I agree..... What kind of courage does it take to post something on a message board for people you will never meet to read????

What kind of courage does it take to kick a guy in the neck after he's down? In my opinion, not much.

[Pumchavas28]

What kind of courage does it take to kick a guy in the neck after he's down? In my opinion, not much.


I never said it took courage.... I did however say he had no buisness reaching for my wife....

Don't know if your a dude or not, but what would you do... Would you let some dude grab your wife after he just swung at your buddy & threw a beer at you?

:popcorn:

[Pumchavas28]

Why does Friona keep calling me out for taking care of my wife & keeping some dude off of her & then never answer my question????

Any of you with wives.... If everything was going so fast that your not thinking of right or wrong but you see some dude go after your wife.... what would you do... Just curious...... :popcorn:

[Dustin00whoop]

What is this whole thing about some dude going after your wife stemming from....I must've missed it.

[txags92]

I just want to lose a lot this season. ... I just wanted to lose so that there was NO way Coach Fran could keep his job. ... Losing more now rather than just hanging in there will help our team win more sooner. ... I kind of want Baylor to beat us this week....

Bad Ag! New army has gone to hell...

[FrionaAg1990]

Why does Friona keep calling me out for taking care of my wife & keeping some dude off of her & then never answer my question????

Any of you with wives.... If everything was going so fast that your not thinking of right or wrong but you see some dude go after your wife.... what would you do... Just curious...... :popcorn:

Hey Pum-
Just being married to my wife takes courage, lots of courage. ;)

I don't know what happened in situation, but my wife would have beat the ever livin, compound, complex before I knew what was going on. You did what did, probably on instinct. Not like you had time to think it over.

[DCAggie]

Why does Friona keep calling me out for taking care of my wife & keeping some dude off of her & then never answer my question????

Any of you with wives.... If everything was going so fast that your not thinking of right or wrong but you see some dude go after your wife.... what would you do... Just curious...... :popcorn:

Mos def. I wouldn't apologize for anything like that. For my wife or my daughter, or any other family member for that matter.

[Pumchavas28]

What is this whole thing about some dude going after your wife stemming from....I must've missed it.


http://www.aggiefans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23885

[Mezentius]

Nobody touches my wife...hell no man touches any woman like that. Beat downs ensure when that happens. That's what he got. End of story.

[phatbc]

Wondering about what will happen is a lot different than actually wanting the Aggies to lose. Regardless of the coach I would wonder about the remaining games. Even if A&M shut out their 4 previous opponents, averaged 50 points a game, I would wonder. But also, regardless of the coach, I want A&M to win.

The whole idea of hoping that we lose so we can get a new coach is just some kinda wierd circular logic. If we lose, then we'll get a new coach, so I hope we lose. But if we win, we don't get a new coach. Probably true. Of course, if we win, then why do you care who the coach is. Unless Fran spit on you while you were walking around campus, then hope he wins. If not, it will be fixed.

If your desire to see A&M win or lose actually affected the game, then I could see that, but since your role in all of this is passive, and the whole point of this is to win w/ whatever coach we have, then you've got your logic all mixed up. What you say or do or whether or not you want the win doesn't affect the outcome. So why wouldn't you cheer for the team and hope for its success?
I agree with what you are saying. I want the team to win out, and I will HOPE for the team to win out this year and every year regardless of coach. However, will I be upset by seasons end if our losing was enough to get a better coach? Yes and No, because my players deserve better, but at the same time it was necessary to catalyze change. So its this whole, we want them to win, but in the back of our minds we realize that fran could go 7-5 and remain the coach, and then go 7-5 again next year with little improvement. Would that be what we want? would that be what our players deserve? is that good enough for this program and the amount of money we spend? A timely coaching change can make the difference between a national championship and being crippled forever.

So don't mistake my argument, I'm playing a little devil's advocate here. It is NEVER OK to hope we lose the upcoming games. So obviously best case scenario is we win out, and Fran is the man, and has continued success.

And your quote here "What you say or do or whether or not you want the win doesn't affect the outcome." is a good point.

[DCAggie]

I understand the paradox. I'd be fine with a new coach. I'm not sure why we thought Fran was so great in the beginning honestly. I'm not sure why he go the raise. That being said, I want the Aggies to win every game. I understand what you're saying--that it'd be great for them to win all the games, but they probably won't. You want them to win have an awesome season, but what if it doesn't work out and it's just average and Fran sticks, leading to another season of the same. I guess I still don't see yall's dilemna there, because it doesn't matter what you want, i.e. a win or a loss, because you don't coach or play. So why would you cheer against your team and your school? Doing so isn't gonna lead to Fran leaving because it's not gonna cause the team to lose.

For the sake of argument, say it takes an 8 win season for him to keep his job, and come Thanksgiving, the team has 7 wins. Who do yall want to win that game?

[phatbc]

So why would you cheer against your team and your school? Doing so isn't gonna lead to Fran leaving because it's not gonna cause the team to lose.
I see what you are saying. My response is I won't cheer for them to lose, ever. Haven't yet, never will.

For the sake of argument, say it takes an 8 win season for him to keep his job, and come Thanksgiving, the team has 7 wins. Who do yall want to win that game? I knew you would go to this:cool:. I would root for them to win absolutely. If the cutoff was 7 wins, I would root for the team to win, but hope to hell byrne fires him anyway. But if you asked me if I was sad AFTERWARDS if we lost? I think I'd get over with it pretty damn quick. Considering the past few years and the mediocrity we have displayed, I wouldn't be too upset with the loss (hell I'm used to it), and in this case it could mean brighter days.

[DCAggie]

[quote=phatbc;258466]I see what you are saying. My response is I won't cheer for them to lose, ever. Haven't yet, never will.

Yeah, that's more directed at the original poster who said he was wanting them to lose.

Oh well. Last thurs sucked. Beat the hell outta baylor. With that, I'm done w/ this discussion; back to work.

[phatbc]

:rep:

[Bama Charlie]

Ok wait.

Of course its un-Aggie to want the team to lose. As much as I want Fran gone now, I want our team to win out, that would make everyone happy. I think the problem is, people know Fran won't win out, so they want him gone asap. They realize if he wins just enough, maybe we can't justify getting rid of him, which could continue mediocrity when we could be improving NOW, or in coming seasons. This senario would in fact be worse for the program, so a sacrifice of one year could be better in the long run. Of course if the "Fran could be staying" assumption is wrong, then the argument is pointless. BUT, I can at least maybe see what he is talking about. Maybe as a solution, CONAN should just adopt the, "I hope Fran resigns and takes his staff with him, and we win out, and get a great coach next year." Thats a true win-win situation. :popcorn:

I think this attitude is called frustration. There have been two HC at Bama that I wanted to see leave in the worse way. Sometimes I would think that I wanted them to lose and lose until the powers that be finally fired the boob. Then when we lost a close game I felt bad. On the other hand, when we would get blown out I would be wanting them to beat us 100-0. And I would feel bad. An attitude roller-coaster. One of me wanting Bama to win, the other me wanting Bama to lose. I wish I had the answer to frustration, but I don't.

[Conan]

Let's say we win some games this year. Fran stays and maybe gets a contract extension. A nightmare!!! Why? Because no matter how we perform, Fran will never be a good enough coach to win a Big XII championship. His attitude is irresponsible, his play calling is STUPID (no other way to put it) and his treatment of the players is bad. He doesn't give our guys a chance to show their stuff. He refuses to prepare our guys for games. RC sure did. As bad as you hate him.
So, why does it matter if we win with Fran? Because it'll never be enough. It'll never be a championship and never a big bowl win. You can adjust your strategy, adjust your assistant coaches, but rarely can you adjust an attitude.

[Vlyrock]

Let's say we win some games this year. Fran stays and maybe gets a contract extension. A nightmare!!! Why? Because no matter how we perform, Fran will never be a good enough coach to win a Big XII championship.

Based on what? His past record? He was 6 points away last year. If you're going by wins, he's got a better record than Frank Beamer in his first 4 years at a program. Beamer is considered one of the better coaches in NCAA over the past several years. VT has always been high in the rankings...

Beamer:
1987 (2-9)
1988 (3-8)
1989 (6-4-1)
1990 (6-5)
1991 (5-6)
1992 (2-8-1)
1993 (9-3) Independence Bowl champion
1994 (8-4) Gator Bowl
1995 (10-2) BIG EAST, Sugar Bowl champion
1996 (10-2) BIG EAST co-champion, Orange Bowl
1997 (7-5) Gator Bowl 1998 (9-3) Music City Bowl champion
1999 (11-1) BIG EAST champion, Sugar Bowl
2000 (11-1) Gator Bowl champion
2001 (8-4) Gator Bowl
2002 (10-4) San Francisco Bowl champion
2004 (10-3) ACC champion, Sugar Bowl
2005 (11-2) ACC Coastal champion, Gator Bowl champion
2006 (10-3) Chick-fil-A Bowl


Just wanted to see if I could stir the pot a little.. ;)

[phatbc]

touche' Mr. Vly :cool:

[Vlyrock]

Oh, and I can guarantee you that Fran will get no contract extension, even if he wins out and wins his BCS bowl...

[Loftin]

Based on what? His past record? He was 6 points away last year. If you're going by wins, he's got a better record than Frank Beamer in his first 4 years at a program. Beamer is considered one of the better coaches in NCAA over the past several years. VT has always been high in the rankings...

Beamer:
1987 (2-9)
1988 (3-8)
1989 (6-4-1)
1990 (6-5)
1991 (5-6)
1992 (2-8-1)
1993 (9-3) Independence Bowl champion
1994 (8-4) Gator Bowl
1995 (10-2) BIG EAST, Sugar Bowl champion
1996 (10-2) BIG EAST co-champion, Orange Bowl
1997 (7-5) Gator Bowl 1998 (9-3) Music City Bowl champion
1999 (11-1) BIG EAST champion, Sugar Bowl
2000 (11-1) Gator Bowl champion
2001 (8-4) Gator Bowl
2002 (10-4) San Francisco Bowl champion
2004 (10-3) ACC champion, Sugar Bowl
2005 (11-2) ACC Coastal champion, Gator Bowl champion
2006 (10-3) Chick-fil-A Bowl


Just wanted to see if I could stir the pot a little.. ;)

The San Francisco Bowl is not a championship. I hate when teams refer to themselves as "(whatever) bowl champions." There are only 2 championships a team can win: conference and national.