How much of the game was the players fault and how much the coaches?

[Vlyrock]

This should make for an interesting poll, but I'm sure I know what the response will be. I'm interested to see the response...

The team gets 100% of the loss. If you had to pin a percentage on the players and a percentage on the coaches, how would you disperse the blame for the poor showing?

I figured nobody would put 100% of blame on the players, so that has been left off since we're limited to 10 replies. Please note, responses are viewable (not private)....

[CopeIt]

Could you please clarify what you mean by players vs. team......

[Vlyrock]

I meant coaches and have edited the description.

[PinetarAg]

I said 60 coaches and 40 players.....I really think its more 65-35, but no quite 70-30

[CopeIt]

80/20

I feel like some of the players played below their ability but I also feel that it was due to frustration/anger/sadness etc that wouldn't have been there if the coaches weren't so crappy. While I feel the reasons for the players playing below par is the coaches fault, I think a player needs to be strong enough to just go out there and play 100% all the time despite any mental issues going on.

I would say 85/20 actually and I would like to put it 100% on the coaches since they are ultimately responsible for creating the mental issues with the team. Hope that made sense.

[PinetarAg]

but the coaches didn't fumble it 3284723894723 times before halftime.

[SHAG69]

I feel we all realize the team has to execute, but they can ONLY execute a decent game plan. Giving the train two carries for two yards is just one of the examples of incompetency by our coach. What will OU do? IS OU that much better than us? There coaching staff kicked a** against miami.

[KCAggie]

The coaches take the majority of the blame here (I say about 75%). The gameplan was horrible, horrible, horrible. I don't think the players really played well enough to win, but with a better game plan from the coaches, it should have been close.

[Vlyrock]

I voted 60% coaches and 40% players.

I think the offensive play calling was very poor last night. Lane should've had more carries and been mixed in early on. Because of the deficit, we were never able to work him into the game plan. -COACHES

Offensive Execution was pathetic. Our "heralded offensive line" full of candidates on award lists couldn't get a push or block long enough on run plays (and pass plays) contributing to the offensive woes. Stephen Mcgee held the ball too long on most of the pass plays and Mike Goodson tried to dance for yards instead of run for them. Note to Mike: You can't juke everybody -- put your head down and get an extra 2-3 yards, it'll pay off in the long run. -Players

Defensive playcalling. The zone doesn't work. Darnell, we may not have the best athletes on the field, but sometimes you have to make a change. We played zone all night and got picked apart by an average quarterback. -COACHES

Defensive Execution - Misi Tupe, you're exempted. You played well, made plays all over the field and seemed like the only defensive player that killed. Pugh and Gorrer, you guys got burned repeatedly. How does Miami, who lacks a productive passing game, completed several passes over 40 yards? How do you let a receiver get deeper than you? People may complain this was "coaching", but I'll disagree. Even at the high school level, as a safety, you're taught to not let a receiver behind you and be as deep as the deepest receiver. No zone calls for the safety to let a man 20 yards behind him -- that's on the players. On top of that, tackle! How many times did our DBs and lineman get bowled over by their guys because we couldn't wrap up? -PLAYERS

SPECIAL TEAMS - Cody Wallace, you can't return balls. Fall on the ball. Peterson, catch the punt or get away. -PLAYERS

Special Teams - Coaches, we need to learn when to go for it on 4th down. We didn't do a good job last night and it cost us. The 4th and 15 play call was right and Franks was open -- McGee missed him, however, if you're going to for that, then why didn't you go for the 4th and shorter that we had right before that? -COACHES

[CopeIt]

I doubt the players that SHOULD have been in the position to catch the ball would have fumbled....thus it is on the coaches for putting those players in that position.

OL catching balls.....yeh, blame them for dropping it.....blame the coaches for asking them to catch it in the first place. Then blame the coaches again for not correcting the mistake. Then blame the coaches again for not correcting the mistake. Then again and again. I just redid the math and I am pretty sure it comes out 85/15

[PinetarAg]

I'm not condoning the game plan from last night....but a ton of the plays in the first half were zone reads where Mcgee has the choice to give it to the big man or keep it.

Obviously he kept it a billion times.....so why do you not fault Mcgee in that instance??? The option was given by the coahces to give it to Lane...Mcgee never did.

[CopeIt]

So the coaches should have noticed that pattern from all the other games that he has done it and taken that option away from him. Threaten to bench him if he continues to do it. How about just calling another play from the sideline? It ultimately rests on the coach for allowing the situation to exist without change....

[Burnetaggie99]

50/50 Players and coaches both stunk it up about the same.

[RealBear]

I will give you an outsiders view.
The problem started with the 3 creampuffs at home. Fresno should have awakened the players, but La-Monroe overcame all that was learned. Players went to Miami, a different level of players than faced so far this year, and were shell-shocked immediately by the hard-hitting and fast defensive linemen. Miami had fire in their belly and looking for some respect after what OU did to them. A&M not mentally prepared for that.

The reasons I give the coching staff 60% is for not mentally preparing them for that emotion. Maybe they tried, who knows. Also, the coaching staff did nothing but add fuel to the fire with screwy play calling, non-use of J-train, screwy use of time-outs, and failure to make any adjustments to help their players who were getting steamrolled on the field. Not good.

Of coarse, the players missed some blocks, looked like deer in the headlights at times, and some of those fumbles on special teams were outrageous. Surely the coaches had taught them better than those plays.

[Vlyrock]

Goodson fumbled it. Peterson fumbeld it. Wallace fumbled it. Fran and Koenning didn't fumble it -- sorry Copelt -- can't agree with your thinking there.

[PinetarAg]

I agree with Vly...that falls on player execution.

[CopeIt]

Yeh, I didn't really think that one through before I posted it. Combination of the drinking that started around the 2nd quarter last night, the massive hangover today, and the anger will do that to a man. I still think most of the fumbles wouldn't happen if the players were in the right mental condition for the game - that still rides on the coaches. I wouldn't expect the best collegiate team in the world to perform well under that game plan.

[November Echo]

The reality is that coaches recruit the players for the program and the coach decides who starts and plays. Nobody can say Fran's playing RC's recruits, anymore.

The coaches also have the responsibility to prepare the players to execute properly. You don't have to be a football genius to see the difference between a well coached team and one that is not. Our team did not look prepared for prime time.

Players making mistakes fumbling the ball do cost football games for every team. But this contest wasn't even close.

Players can make coaches look brilliant, but head coaches are ultimately responsible for the program.


75 % coach, 25 % players

[MarylandAG]

I went 80% coaches, but I'd like to say 85%! Two trains of thought on this, and I subscribe to the theory that if the turnover were even, say there was no turnovers, we still get beat, plainly obvious to me that we had no game plan, or a pathetic one if you want to call it something.

[Loftin]

90/10

The players did make some mistakes (fumbles, INT, blown coverage).

However, we ran a gameplan that had a 0% chance of success.

[Curly06]

coaches shouldnt have your second string in 1st half when you're gettin your ass kicked.
cody shoudlnt have cause the second fumble on the return- anthony lewis clearly called him off!
peterson shouldnt have been there to return it- his ass isnt the best back there.
couldnt see the goodson fumble very well so not sure- and damn mcgee was playin scared all night- never showed any confidence....
i could go on & on bout dumbass decisions by Fran

[GSZ94]

80/20 Coaches.

Too much hype....

...just like in the movie "Tombstone" when Doc Holiday tells a dead Johnny Ringo that "he was just too high strung".

[GuatemalanAg]

Our guys entered the game unprepared...Coaches
The play calling was terrible...Coaches
Fumbles...Players
Lack of execution...Players
The first two outweigh the last two...

[whitelightnin_23]

I voted 60% coaches and 40% players.

I think the offensive play calling was very poor last night. Lane should've had more carries and been mixed in early on. Because of the deficit, we were never able to work him into the game plan. -COACHES

Offensive Execution was pathetic. Our "heralded offensive line" full of candidates on award lists couldn't get a push or block long enough on run plays (and pass plays) contributing to the offensive woes. Stephen Mcgee held the ball too long on most of the pass plays and Mike Goodson tried to dance for yards instead of run for them. Note to Mike: You can't juke everybody -- put your head down and get an extra 2-3 yards, it'll pay off in the long run. -Players

Defensive playcalling. The zone doesn't work. Darnell, we may not have the best athletes on the field, but sometimes you have to make a change. We played zone all night and got picked apart by an average quarterback. -COACHES

Defensive Execution - Misi Tupe, you're exempted. You played well, made plays all over the field and seemed like the only defensive player that killed. Pugh and Gorrer, you guys got burned repeatedly. How does Miami, who lacks a productive passing game, completed several passes over 40 yards? How do you let a receiver get deeper than you? People may complain this was "coaching", but I'll disagree. Even at the high school level, as a safety, you're taught to not let a receiver behind you and be as deep as the deepest receiver. No zone calls for the safety to let a man 20 yards behind him -- that's on the players. On top of that, tackle! How many times did our DBs and lineman get bowled over by their guys because we couldn't wrap up? -PLAYERS

SPECIAL TEAMS - Cody Wallace, you can't return balls. Fall on the ball. Peterson, catch the punt or get away. -PLAYERS

Special Teams - Coaches, we need to learn when to go for it on 4th down. We didn't do a good job last night and it cost us. The 4th and 15 play call was right and Franks was open -- McGee missed him, however, if you're going to for that, then why didn't you go for the 4th and shorter that we had right before that? -COACHES

there's a lot of gray area in there...for example Wallace should have it IRONED in his head that if he gets the ball...DON'T RUN!!! Just one example of how a "players" vote could just as easily go to a "coaches" vote..

[whitelightnin_23]

i'm going anywhere between 70 & 80% coaches on this one...(I'll stick w/ 70% coaches)...

mainly because of the piss poor game preparation, little to no adjustments at halftime, & the inability to assess your players mid-game (McGee was off, Goodson wasn't doing anything, etc) & adjust...

[Vlyrock]

there's a lot of gray area in there...for example Wallace should have it IRONED in his head that if he gets the ball...DON'T RUN!!! Just one example of how a "players" vote could just as easily go to a "coaches" vote..
I agree...a lot of gray area which makes it hard to say it's all this side or that side's fault...but to counter - a lot of blame is being put on the coaches, but maybe Wallace did have it ironed in his head to fall on it, but when he got the ball, he had visions of making a big play and sparking the team...

We'll never know.

[12th man fan]

80% on coaches, 20% on players.

The fumbles go on the players. (BTW McGee's INT was not his fault). The fumbles IMO is what made the loss so lopsided.
I put part of the blame for the awful O-line performance on the players as swell, although I have to believe that we were using the wrong blockig schemes for teh defense they were running.

But we probably would have lost even without the turnovers. I lay the blame for that on the coaches. Poor preparation, poor offensive and defensive game plans, poor game management (time outs, etc.), poor adjustments, etc. Poor coaching period.

[MarylandAG]

AMEN to this post, thank you for someone seeing the same thing I see!!!!

for example Wallace should have it IRONED in his head that if he gets the ball...DON'T RUN!!!

It should be drilled into his head so damn much that it should be a reflect to just fall on it! THIS IS COACHED into them!!!!

:rep: for White!

[AustinAggie]

I agree with Vy, there was a ton of poor execution. The one thing which was cause and effect was the O line couldn't get McGee any time to set and pass. He was constantly scrambling or getting pounded into the turf. On the option I think he is starting to become a ball hog. He had an open back for more yards several times but he took it anyway. That is why I say the team as well as the coaches had more of an even responsibility in loosing this game. I want see Fran lose it on the field more too. Quit shaking your had and get in a ref's face for god's sake. Let you team see your passion not pacifism. I am tired of you throwing your hands up. Get to the bench and fire your players up. Smack some helmets around.

[Vlyrock]

I really think, all things aside, what cost us the game was the mental and physical collapse in the last 2 minutes of the half. The two turnovers that led to Miami's 10 points made a close game 14-0 a blowout at 24-0. That was the key point in the game.

[12th man fan]

On the option I think he is starting to become a ball hog. He had an open back for more yards several times but he took it anyway.

Or Fran has told him to stop taking so many chances with the pitches and just tuck it and run - you know, it's so much safer.

Fran, get the frick out of the way, give the ball to the kids, and let them play!

[BAGGIO]

while our players obviously didnt play to their potential the blame should fall completely on the coaches. If something doesn't work, change it. its that simple.

[12th man fan]

I want see Fran lose it on the field more too. Quit shaking your had and get in a ref's face for god's sake. Let you team see your passion not pacifism. I am tired of you throwing your hands up. Get to the bench and fire your players up. Smack some helmets around.

I agree, but you won't get that from Coach Clipboard. He's too involved with calculating the safest way not to lose too many yards.

[jagowar]

I really think, all things aside, what cost us the game was the mental and physical collapse in the last 2 minutes of the half. The two turnovers that led to Miami's 10 points made a close game 14-0 a blowout at 24-0. That was the key point in the game.


38 total yds in the first half isnt what id call "being in the game". We showed nothing in the first half that made me think we were gonna come back 14-0 or 24-0.

[Vlyrock]

That's what halftime adjustments are for. Happened all last year. It's easier to adjust and try to come back from 14 down instead of 24.

[Pflugerville Ag]

Sure, the fumbles are a valid arguement in favor of the players, but I voted 100% to the coaches. The fumbles did not lose us that game....the game planning and play calling did. If Fran calls a flat handoff to Goodson up the middle with no lead blocker one more time, I'm gonna break my damn TV. How he is willing to call that play with Goodson and then not give the ball to Lane on the same play is beyond me.

Anyone else think Lane was in the doghouse on Thursday and Fran was being stubborn trying to prove a point to him?

[Dustin00whoop]

No, I think our coach just out smarted himself AGAIN.

This is truly how he thinks: "Miami is going to sell out to stop Lane. Lets throw them a nice hook & take Lane out of the game plan so they never get a chance to stop him. Les, what do you think about that?"

Les (in his fake Southern twang): "Hey, you're the Coach. I'm just a Yes Man!"

[Thisjeffguy07]

best poll we've had so far.... from a statistical standpoint it's nice to see a unimodal curve and pretty damn close to a normal distribution... this tells me that people answered honestly...

good job guys :gig:

[Vlyrock]

I think you get negative rep (or maybe positive) for using unimodal curve in a post... :cool:

[Thisjeffguy07]

I think you get negative rep (or maybe positive) for using unimodal curve in a post... :cool:

:laugh: i know somebody on here knows what it means and might appreciate the observation :undecided:

[Thisjeffguy07]

I'm going to vote that I should receive positive rep for using "unimodal curve"

:popcorn:

[ugbrad]

I was just trying to throw of "thisguys" unimodel...

[Dustin00whoop]

ugbrad = outlier

[whitelightnin_23]

I like how he comes in here & eff's up Jeff's order! :gig:

nice entrance ugbrad!

btw...we're all not concerned with pretty polls & unimodel curves...

however if you look @ the hotties threads...we do like model curves...:gig:

[Conan]

Let's just put it like this: Coach Fran: "we were out of it at halftime" Mark Dodge: "we knew we could still come back".... I should have said 100% coaches

[whitelightnin_23]

Let's just put it like this: Coach Fran: "we were out of it at halftime" Mark Dodge: "we knew we could still come back".... I should have said 100% coaches

I didn't catch that discrepancy in the post game audio...

Is that where you got those quotes?

[Dustin00whoop]

No, I think our coach just out smarted himself AGAIN.

This is truly how he thinks: "Miami is going to sell out to stop Lane. Lets throw them a nice hook & take Lane out of the game plan so they never get a chance to stop him. Les, what do you think about that?"

Les (in his fake Southern twang): "Hey, you're the Coach. I'm just a Yes Man!"

Unfortunately, just talked to a player's dad....and this was EXACTLY the thought process. Lane wasn't being punished. He did nothing wrong. Our brilliant coach just decided that Miami would focus on Lane & Fran thought he would outsmart them by taking Lane out of the game plan.

THIS IS WHY I SAY HE HAS TO GO! He allowed an inferior team to dictate his game plan, rather than taking it to them. :bs:

[whitelightnin_23]

Unfortunately, just talked to a player's dad....and this was EXACTLY the thought process. Lane was being punished. He did nothing wrong. Our brilliant coach just decided that Miami would focus on Lane & Fran thought he would outsmart them by taking Lane out of the game plan.

THIS IS WHY I SAY HE HAS TO GO! He allowed an inferior team to dictate his game plan, rather than taking it to them. :bs:

did you mean he WASN'T being punished...

not trying to be nitpicky...it just is confusing to read...

[Dustin00whoop]

Yes, thats what I meant. Fixed. I'm just such an optimist, its hard to use words like not or even n't. ;)

[Vlyrock]

Dustin, my only question would be where did the dad hear this? Did Fran disclose his plan to him or is he doing what everybody else is doing and that's assuming and guessing?

[Dustin00whoop]

Dustin, my only question would be where did the dad hear this? Did Fran disclose his plan to him or is he doing what everybody else is doing and that's assuming and guessing?

He heard it from his son. The staff tells the players what the game plan for that week is. When the dad talked to his son after the game & asked WTF J Lane did wrong, the kid let his dad know that was the game plan all along.

[Dustin00whoop]

The staff tells the players what the game plan for that week is

Just like before T+1, the coaches came in & said, "We are going to come out & use everyone we have & run it down their throats."

[Vlyrock]

One last counter and then I'm done. If J-Train and team knew that was the plan going in (to specifically not give him the ball) -- why did he look pissed off?

That's just why, I think, the game plan going in wasn't to keep the ball away from Lane...

[Dustin00whoop]

I don't know that because I didn't ask, but probably because he was thinking, "Your F**KED up gameplan isn't working....give me the damn ball, you jackass!"

[Thisjeffguy07]

I was just trying to throw of "thisguys" unimodel...

nice try brad, but an outlier does not change the unimodalness of the graph...

[Thisjeffguy07]

brad,

you owe me money for bills

-Jeff

[Conan]

I didn't catch that discrepancy in the post game audio...

Is that where you got those quotes?

I got them from the Batt who got them from the postgame. I didn't hear the tone, but the words still made sense.

[12th man fan]

If you have strengths, then you make the other team stop those strengths...you don't take them out of your game plan because you think the opposition will stop them. What if they key on Lane, for example, but they still don't stop him? Or what if they key on Lane inside, leaving the perimeters weak - which we could exploit with Goodson and McGee?

Is Fran really that stupid?

[Dustin00whoop]

If you have strengths, then you make the other team stop those strengths...you don't take them out of your game plan because you think the opposition will stop them. What if they key on Lane, for example, but they still don't stop him? Or what if they key on Lane inside, leaving the perimeters weak - which we could exploit with Goodson and McGee?

Is Fran really that stupid?

Apparently, yes!

[Curly06]

its been posted before that lane wasnt in the doghouse- Frans just an idiot

[Dustin00whoop]

its been posted before that lane wasnt in the doghouse- Frans just an idiot


Yeah, I know. Just giving greater confirmation to that.

[Mezentius]

In all my years I've never seen as unique a back as Lane...I've seen better but none that possess his unique set of skills and size.

Why he is so inconsistently used is mind boggling. At first I thought it was conditioning...nay I assumed. I was wrong. He's put the team on his back too many times. He's the one creating the space for the option, grinding out the toughest yards and yet he isn't given the ball for huge swaths of the season...mind boggling.

[12th man fan]

You would have thought that Fran would have learned during last year's Mizzou game that lane can be counted on. If nothing else, pound him opccaissionally just to keep the defense thinking about him. But at the the end of the missouri game, everyone in the stadium knew that Lane was going to hoist the team on his back and carry them down the field - which he did. I thought Fran figured out at that point what he had in Lane. I thought he had learned to use your strengths.

Apparently all of that was forgotten during the off-season, and now Coach Clipboard once again thinks he has to outsmart everyone rather than attack them with our weapons, which are numerous.

[Dustin00whoop]

You would have thought that Fran would have learned during last year's Mizzou game that lane can be counted on. If nothing else, pound him opccaissionally just to keep the defense thinking about him. But at the the end of the missouri game, everyone in the stadium knew that Lane was going to hoist the team on his back and carry them down the field - which he did. I thought Fran figured out at that point what he had in Lane. I thought he had learned to use your strengths.

Apparently all of that was forgotten during the off-season, and now Coach Clipboard once again thinks he has to outsmart everyone rather than attack them with our weapons, which are numerous.


Not true....thats the biggest thing. Just two games before Miami he made it evident that he knew what he had in Lane because he gave him the ball for damn near every play in 3 OTs in 100+ degree heat. :mad:

[12th man fan]

Not true....thats the biggest thing. Just two games before Miami he made it evident that he knew what he had in Lane because he gave him the ball for damn near every play in 3 OTs in 100+ degree heat. :mad:

OK, so he forgot that between FS and Miami? It still doesn't make any sense.

[Dustin00whoop]

OK, so he forgot that between FS and Miami? It still doesn't make any sense.


Right....it makes less sense, which makes it even more frustrating.