rangers got close to gettin them an aggie

[Superaggie79]

Doug Melvin told Milwaukee reporters that if Gagné had not approved the deal to Boston, the Brewers (to whom Gagné could not have prevented a trade) would have acquired him for outfielder Tony Gwynn Jr., AAA lefthander Zach Jackson, and another minor league prospect.
:(

[Pflugerville Ag]

Glad he didn't go there. That would have been career suicide.

BTW, congrats on Gagne and Tex getting called up to the majors this week! :)

[whitelightnin_23]

Gagne as a setup man...that's a huge swallow of pride there...
A couple of factors here:
1) He wants a ring
2) He wants out of the Rangers system

I'm sure they were equal driving forces...

[Superaggie79]

Gagne as a setup man...that's a huge swallow of pride there...
A couple of factors here:
1) He wants a ring
2) He wants out of the Rangers system

I'm sure they were equal driving forces...
This is where you're wrong. He's been quoted as saying he wants to come back in the off-season after his contract is up

[Superaggie79]

Glad he didn't go there. That would have been career suicide.

BTW, congrats on Gagne and Tex getting called up to the majors this week! :)
Who is the Astros Major League affiliate?

[Pflugerville Ag]

Who is the Astros Major League affiliate?

I knew that would get you going. I'm not gonna have all day to debate this with you b/c I am way behind at work. Players don't want out of Houston, even when they suck, b/c they like playing there and know that they will be successful again.

[Superaggie79]

Yeah Roger and Andy and all the other free agents are dying to go to Houston.

[whitelightnin_23]

Yeah Roger and Andy and all the other free agents are dying to go to Houston.

Houston...New York...

It's not like they left for KC, or Detroit...:bored:

[Pflugerville Ag]

Yeah Roger and Andy and all the other free agents are dying to go to Houston.

Roger and Andy? You mean the queers that played the majority of their careers with NY wanting to finish their careers with that team? Please list "all the other free agents" that don't want to go to Houston. There is a big difference in players leaving at the end of their contract as opposed to wanting to be traded to a contender. Its a big statement when one of the most dominant closers in baseball wants to get traded AND give up his closer role just to be on a different team.

[PinetarAg]

This is where you're wrong. He's been quoted as saying he wants to come back in the off-season after his contract is up


if thats true why did he reject offers the Rangers gave him...and oh yeah his agent I believe is Scott Boras which means he will hit the open market and go the the highest bidder.


Gagne, who led the Rangers with 16 saves, can be a free agent after this season, and Hicks said they offered him a two-year extension with two performance vesting options. That offer was also rejected, and the Rangers turned down a counter-offer.
"Eric Gagne is a player that wanted to stay, but we couldn't make a deal with his agent," Hicks said. "It's unfortunate, but we were still able to come up with some very good young players for him."

there is no way he is coming back to the rangers...sorry

[PinetarAg]

by the way it looks like Salty is going to play the majority of the time at first....I think that is the wrong move, I can not express how bad this move will be if they keep him there fulltime for the time with the Rangers...but its the rangers

[Superaggie79]

by the way it looks like Salty is going to play the majority of the time at first....I think that is the wrong move, I can not express how bad this move will be if they keep him there fulltime for the time with the Rangers...but its the rangers
It was said that he will spend 2 days a week behind the plate by Washington. Basically the best lineup has him and laird in there so that's the best way to do it. The also said that at the end of the season they will assess whether or not he will be the fulltime catcher or not. His defense as a catcher has been questioned too. So it's actually the right move because Ron is getting all the players he can innings so that he can evaluate for the next season.

[Superaggie79]

Roger and Andy? You mean the queers that played the majority of their careers with NY wanting to finish their careers with that team? Please list "all the other free agents" that don't want to go to Houston. There is a big difference in players leaving at the end of their contract as opposed to wanting to be traded to a contender. Its a big statement when one of the most dominant closers in baseball wants to get traded AND give up his closer role just to be on a different team.
This sounds like bitterness. Everyone loved Roger the hometown boy until he left. Name a big time free agent that has wanted to go to houston. Sure Carlos Lee but he has a ranch near houston and he wanted to be closer to it. (I know people that know him personally). And Gagne wasn't requesting to be traded or anything and if you listened you'd know that he only accepted the trade because they agreed to pay what he'd make in incentives as a closer. He was going to play out this season no matter what to be a free agent. It's a smart business decision for a guy that's coming off two years of surgery and starting to pitch well again.

[Pflugerville Ag]

Everyone loved Roger? Not true. People liked when he pitched for Houson, but hated how he thought he was bigger than the team and the game. Most Astros fans I know were happy to see him go b/c him dragging out the process every year prevented Houston from being able to go after any other players b/c Drayton had to set aside a ton of $$$ in case Roger came back. I'm as big an Astro fan as anyone and I didn't want Roger back this year.

Name some big name free agents...how about Oswalt signing a new contract when he could have got more somewhere else? How about Bagwell continually resigning when he could have got more somewhere else? How about Biggio continually resigning when he could have got mroe somewhere else? Three of the best players to ever paly for Houston continually signed new contracts when they could have made tons more money testing the free agent market.

[Superaggie79]

http://alt.cimedia.com/ajc/jpg/polinsider/koolaid1.JPG

[PinetarAg]

its not really worth talking baseball with SA---i just humor him, he blew it awhile back when he posted about the astros not winning an series and going off about, and he was wrong...Surprise:bored:

for instance in this thread I was saying it was the wrong move for the rangers to "keep him (Salty) there (firstbase) fulltime for the time with the Rangers"...then he goes off saying he will catch 2 times a week and re-evaluate after the season...I was under the impression I said it was the wrong move to keep him there fulltime for his time (career) with the Rangers.....or again in this thread, the part where he said Gagne wants to come back to Texas, but you show him the facts that he rejected a deal to bring him back.

talking to a guy who roots for a team who has been to the playoffs three times in their existance (swept twice, and actually one a game once--congrats) and plays average baseball at best --- is kind of like talking to a Gaylor alumn





;)

[Loftin]

I don't understand how a Rangers fan can talk crap to anyone. That's like LA Clipper fans talking ****...

[PinetarAg]

I don't understand how a Rangers fan can talk crap to anyone. That's like LA Clipper fans talking ****...

exactly

[Pflugerville Ag]

I don't understand how a Rangers fan can talk crap to anyone. That's like LA Clipper fans talking ****...

Or a Texans fan. :(

[Loftin]

Or a Texans fan. :(

Yep, which is why I never talk crap about the Dallas Cowboys (even though I really dislike them).

[Superaggie79]

its not really worth talking baseball with SA---i just humor him, he blew it awhile back when he posted about the astros not winning an serious and going off about, and he was wrong...Surprise:bored:

for instance in this thread I was saying it was the wrong move for the rangers to "keep him (Salty) there (firstbase) fulltime for the time with the Rangers"...then he goes off saying he will catch 2 times a week and re-evaluate after the season...I was under the impression I said it was the wrong move to keep him there fulltime for his time (career) with the Rangers.....or again in this thread, the part where he said Gagne wants to come back to Texas, but you show him the facts that he rejected a deal to bring him back.

talking to a guy who roots for a team who has been to the playoffs three times in their existance (swept twice, and actually one a game once--congrats) and plays average baseball at best --- is kind of like talking to a Gaylor alumn





;)
Could you translate the red highlight? If you're saying the Stros are winning then I'm assuming you're watching replays of a couple of seasons ago.

Also all I did was provide you with a statement that Salty will not be full time catcher. What you were doing was assuming and you know what that does. And I was giving legitimate reports that Gagne wants to pursue coming back next year. But of course he's going to shop himself around.

[PinetarAg]

Could you translate the red highlight? If you're saying the Stros are winning then I'm assuming you're watching replays of a couple of seasons ago.

Also all I did was provide you with a statement that Salty will not be full time catcher. What you were doing was assuming and you know what that does. And I was giving legitimate reports that Gagne wants to pursue coming back next year. But of course he's going to shop himself around.

I meant series...sorry

You were saying it was the right move for this year to play him at first, and kind of went off about it blah blah blah...I however was talking in the long term and that is what it said...for his time with the rangers (I assume he will be there longer than this year, but it is the rangers so who knows). I provided a quote saying Gagne will not be back next year....basically you you never really have any factual information to back up what you say (ie where is the quote where gagne says he wants to come back--it would make it a little easier to take you serious when it comes to baseball).

I'm not knocking on you about everything just when it comes to baseball you seem so clueless sometimes...and thats fine at least you are a fan

[Superaggie79]

I think you read what you wanted to read about what I said.

[PinetarAg]

It was said that he will spend 2 days a week behind the plate by Washington. Basically the best lineup has him and laird in there so that's the best way to do it. The also said that at the end of the season they will assess whether or not he will be the fulltime catcher or not. His defense as a catcher has been questioned too. So it's actually the right move because Ron is getting all the players he can innings so that he can evaluate for the next season.

there is what you said...

you went off about how it is the right move for this year....i simply made a comment that if he is converted to first base fulltime for his career that would be terrible move.....i don't give a sh*t about the rangers this year and what they do this year or how they are going to evaluate players this year...my comment was about Salty's CAREER (most likely that will be more than this year) with the Rangers-- and they control him for the next 5 years I believe, so I assume he will spend the majority of his growth and development for his CAREER in the Rangers system..and let me say this again ---If they convert him to a first baseman for his career with the Rangers, that will be a terrible move....again nothing about this year evaluating him.

but I guess this is what I get for discussing this with a rangers fan...obviously I should steer clear of rangers baseball because of the lack of intelligent conversation.

[Superaggie79]

where am I "going off"?

[Superaggie79]

btw... everyone can see where you went back and made edits on your original comments about Salty and first. :bored:

[PinetarAg]

btw... everyone can see where you went back and made edits on your original comments about Salty and first. :bored:

and if you will look closer it was edited 22 minutes after I posted it..because of spelling, nearly 12 hours before you responded about it.....you have it quoted, nothing is changed

[whitelightnin_23]

:bored: :bored: :bored:

[Pflugerville Ag]

and if you will look closer it was edited 22 minutes after I posted it..because of spelling, nearly 12 hours before you responded about it.....you have it quoted, nothing is changed

Ouch. Game, set, match.

[Superaggie79]

and if you will look closer it was edited 22 minutes after I posted it..because of spelling, nearly 12 hours before you responded about it.....you have it quoted, nothing is changed
technicality... it still doesn't change the fact that I didn't "go off" about anything as you said.

[texag005]

I'm just gonna weigh in here, not sure why, but I'm a Rangers fan and would love to be able to back up a fellow Rangers fan here, but I hate to break it to SA that I was following the trade rumors and comments by players and what not and I don't ever remember Gagne saying he wanted to come back to Texas. I was really hoping we wouldn't trade him just for the fact that I'd get to watch one of the greatest closers pitch some more, but all he ever said was that he really liked the club (players) and he wasn't asking to be traded. I don't think if he wanted to come back next year he would've declined the offer before the trade deadline even though that could be wrong b/c of who his agent is, but that's a completely different subject. To be honest, I know that the stro's historically have a better history by far than the Rangers, but I don't think this season is one that either of our fans should be talking much smack to anybody else except each other.

I think the Rangers will never compete for a championship as I've stated until we have a different front office. Tom Hicks has proven over the past decade that he is maybe one of the worst baseball decision makers in the league. His General Managers are idiots just like him. ok i'm stopping before my blood pressure goes up higher

[Pflugerville Ag]

Nice post 005. :rep:

[whitelightnin_23]

Nice post 005. :rep:

seconded. :rep:

[Superaggie79]

"I hope my value is to this team," said Gagne, who signed a one-year deal worth a base of $6 million and as much as $5 million in games finished incentives with the Rangers in December. "I signed here thinking of this as a long-term commitment and I said that when I signed. I want to be part of helping this team win. And winning doesn't happen overnight. It's a learning process and I think that's what we're doing now."
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/070207dnsporangerslede.21325b9.html

by saying this with a one year deal he was saying that coming back was a good possibility.. At the end of the season he will be in the exact same position.

[Mole]

:popcorn:

[Superaggie79]

http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/1-14-05/rd5.jpg

[texag005]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/070207dnsporangerslede.21325b9.html

by saying this with a one year deal he was saying that coming back was a good possibility.. At the end of the season he will be in the exact same position.


Would I love for him to come back to Texas? Hell yeah, b/c i mean who wouldn't want Gagne on their team, the guy is a beast. I just don't think unless some major changes are made and the front office can convince him they're gonna be a contender he'll be back for another season where he ends up trade bait right before the deadline. Maybe i'm wrong and I would love to be wrong, but we both have our own opinions and we'll just have to wait and see

[Superaggie79]

Would I love for him to come back to Texas? Hell yeah, b/c i mean who wouldn't want Gagne on their team, the guy is a beast. I just don't think unless some major changes are made and the front office can convince him they're gonna be a contender he'll be back for another season where he ends up trade bait right before the deadline. Maybe i'm wrong and I would love to be wrong, but we both have our own opinions and we'll just have to wait and see
see you're basing your thoughts on how you think he feels about the front office, etc... I based mine on a quote from his mouth.

[Superaggie79]

And this arguement began with them saying Gagne wanted out of Texas.

[texag005]

Dude but nowhere in your quote does he say or imply that he wants to come back to Texas after the season. Find a quote, or have him come post on here or something that he wants to come back to Texas for next season and i'll believe it. But I just don't know why anybody in his situation would want to come back. I just don't extrapolate the same idea from that quote as you do. That is all. If he comes back great, if he doesn't well what else is new.


I'm not changing anything, just adding, in case somebody calls me out on editing, but SA I can see how you take that from the "long term commitment" thing, but I remember reading that quote and remember taking it as he was saying long term as in the whole year, b/c i thought the question asked of him had something to do with him being traded.

[PinetarAg]

long-term to Gagne probably meant playing out the full year in Texas because he knew they would fall out of contention and he would be traded

[Superaggie79]

Dude but nowhere in your quote does he say or imply that he wants to come back to Texas after the season. Find a quote, or have him come post on here or something that he wants to come back to Texas for next season and i'll believe it. But I just don't know why anybody in his situation would want to come back. I just don't extrapolate the same idea from that quote as you do. That is all. If he comes back great, if he doesn't well what else is new.
So what does this quote mean to you?
"I signed here thinking of this as a long-term commitment and I said that when I signed. I want to be part of helping this team win. And winning doesn't happen overnight. It's a learning process and I think that's what we're doing now."

[Superaggie79]

long-term to Gagne probably meant playing out the full year in Texas because he knew they would fall out of contention and he would be traded
another assumption... In a debate you have to come with facts or at least something to base from other than a biased personal view.

[PinetarAg]

same time on your edit 005 :gig:


and I was half way joking but i guess there was truth to it :laugh:

[Mole]

I would be more interested in this thread if I actually read the posts.

[texag005]

SA I edited the post above read that

[PinetarAg]

another assumption... In a debate you have to come with facts or at least something to base from other than a biased personal view.

read above...I was joking

[Superaggie79]

I would agree with you're interpretation of long term other than the fact that he said winning doesn't happen overnight... in this case overnight=a season.

[PinetarAg]

I would agree with you're interpretation of long term other than the fact that he said winning doesn't happen overnight... in this case overnight=a season.


now your making an assumption...maybe he meant more than one night, like maybe 2 nights or a week ;)

[texag005]

ok well lets just put this debate to rest, i mean hell like i said above if he comes back awesome and i'll eat crow for interpreting it differently than you. But until then we'll just have to wait and see. So lets remember this thread when the season begins next year and see who was right.

[Dustin00whoop]

SA, he said all that crap a month before he was traded. How can you even try to assume that he still feels the same way about the Rangers now after he okayed a trade to get out of there?

[Superaggie79]

and I was basing my viewpoint on this quote from the daily Newberg Report
I don't know if this club -- this remodeled club -- is going to play .550 ball the rest of the way, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Eric Gagné follows through on his remarks from a few weeks ago and decides over the winter that he wants to be right back in Texas.

The dallas morning news quote was the only thing I could find. Also a big point is Gagne wants to be a closer. While I could see the Yankees going after him to replace Rivera how many contenders are without a closer that might go after him? Not many that drops it back down to the Rangers where he was said to be much more comfortable than he was in Los Angeles.

[PinetarAg]

fair enough...and i will end by saying if the rangers make Salty a CAREER first baseman there will be nothing special about him and he will serve as an average to above average player...but not a superstar like he will be if he stays at catcher

[Superaggie79]

SA, he said all that crap a month before he was traded. How can you even try to assume that he still feels the same way about the Rangers now after he okayed a trade to get out of there?
He okayed the trade based on money... Lets say this... if you played for the Aggies and they said hey Dustin. If we move you to TCU we could get three really good recruits. And after the season you can come back here. We're not doing anything this year but we're looking for next season. Would you not consider it?

[PinetarAg]

and I was basing my viewpoint on this quote from the daily Newberg Report

The dallas morning news quote was the only thing I could find. Also a big point is Gagne wants to be a closer. While I could see the Yankees going after him to replace Rivera how many contenders are without a closer that might go after him? Not many that drops it back down to the Rangers where he was said to be much more comfortable than he was in Los Angeles.
[/size]

those aren't his words...but I appreciate you bring in quotes to back it up...but that is a ranger homer speculating and wishing

[Superaggie79]

fair enough...and i will end by saying if the rangers make Salty a CAREER first baseman there will be nothing special about him and he will serve as an average to above average player...but not a superstar like he will be if he stays at catcher
Are you basing this off of his defensive liability at first? Because if you're talking about the plate he'll be fresher if he's playing everyday at first rather than catcher. Plus I've read in the past week that his defense at catcher is questionable as well.

[Dustin00whoop]

He okayed the trade based on money... Lets say this... if you played for the Aggies and they said hey Dustin. If we move you to TCU we could get three really good recruits. And after the season you can come back here. We're not doing anything this year but we're looking for next season. Would you not consider it?

Nice assumption!

[Superaggie79]

Nice assumption!
He okayed the trade after the Sox agreed to pay him what he stood to make in incentives as a closer. That was well documented. :bored:

[PinetarAg]

Are you basing this off of his defensive liability at first? Because if you're talking about the plate he'll be fresher if he's playing everyday at first rather than catcher. Plus I've read in the past week that his defense at catcher is questionable as well.


I basing this off of productivity of a catcher, more in the Mike Piazza mold but better...he has a chance to be a one of the most productive catchers to play the game when he is done, probably HOF worthy. At first base he will still swing the stick, but will not stick out because at 1st base you are expected to hit. If he stays at first he may make an All Star or two...but if he stays at catching he could be an alltime great.

Piazza was a defensive liability, probably more so than Salty will be, but he played in a World Series and will probably be known as one of if not the greatest hitting cathcer of all time.

[texag005]

If you're talking about Salty, I thought what I read was the his defense at 1st base was shaky. I've talked to some friends of mine that live in Alpharetta and are huge Braves fans, their dad is Chipper Jones personal physician (so they know the team really well usually), and they said that Salty is a bad ace catcher, but if you show me where it is documented that his catching is suspect i'll completely back off, i just thought I saw where 1st base was where he needed the work.

[PinetarAg]

If you're talking about Salty, I thought what I read was the his defense at 1st base was shaky. I've talked to some friends of mine that live in Alpharetta and are huge Braves fans, their dad is Chipper Jones personal physician, and they said that Salty is a bad ace catcher, but if you show me where it is documented that his catching is suspect i'll completely back off, i just thought I saw where 1st base was where he needed the work.


I never said his defense was suspect...I said basically there is no excuse not to have him behind the plate.


SA has said he is a defensive liability.

I'm not even a rangers fan or a braves fan...but I am very high on the type of ceiling Salty has as a catcher

[texag005]

yeah i was directing that towards SA, not you sorry man, but about him being behind the plate, it should be a helluva a battle next year in spring training, b/c Laird is pretty damn good defensively, so we'll just have to see how it plays out.

[Superaggie79]

No... his defense at 1st has been really shaky but I've read that his catching defense is also not spectacular.

[PinetarAg]

I did some research why in this era of baseball it is important to have a catcher that can swing the bat. Typically catcher (aside from pitcher) is biggest liability in the batting order as a whole.

look at the last decade or so World Series winner and then also look at the trypes of seasons their catchers had.

There first two season were Posadas first years to catch fulltime so he did not put up great numbers--who needs that when he plays with the lineups he has, but he did showed some pop. The '00 year great.

The other exceptions are both the Molina boys, but again this can be explained...Yadier (sp) was one of the hottest players in the playoffs last year, without him the Cardinals don't even get to the World Series. Bengie Molina in 02 had a down year, and really took off the next year.

All of these catchers can hit (or in Yadiers case can hit at the right time). This is why it is important to keep Salty a catcher regardless of defense or anything. He can put up Posada type numbers form the '00 season easy. If you have a catcher that can hit above .270 and you have a good team around them...you will be in contetion for the World Series no problem.



98- Yankees- Posada- .268, 17 HR, 63 RBI
99- Yankees- Posada- .245, 12 HR, 57 RBI
00- Yankees- Posada- .287, 28 HR, 87 RBI
01- D-backs- Miller- .271, 13 HR, 43 RBI
02- Angels- B. Molina- .245, 5 HR, 47 RBI
03- Marlins- Pudge- .297, 16 HR, 85 RBI
04- Red Sox- Veriteck - .296, 18 HR, 73 RBI
05- White sox- Pierzynski- .295, 16 HR, 64 RBI
06- Cardinals- Y. Molina- .212 i did bother looking at the rest

[Dustin00whoop]

He okayed the trade after the Sox agreed to pay him what he stood to make in incentives as a closer. That was well documented. :bored:

I would like to see where he said he okayed the trade based on money. At that point, that little extra money doesn't matter. But playing for a winner instead of getting your ass handed to you every night does!

[Superaggie79]

From Peter Gammons Thursday Blog per the Jamey Newburg report.
* "The biggest holdup in the Gagné deal, other than working out his
negotiated rights to refuse a deal to Boston, was 17-year-old outfielder
Engel Beltre. When Epstein went to bed at 2 a.m. Tuesday morning, he had
refused to include Beltre in the trade, so on Tuesday morning, the Rangers
still were down to the Brewers -- who were on Gagné's list of teams to which
he could be traded -- and the Red Sox. But Epstein decided a 17-year-old
kid a half-dozen years from the big leagues probably was worth including for
a shot to win the World Series. 'When Theo called and said he would put
Beltre in the deal, it was down to the no-trade language and the paperwork,'
Daniels said. That paperwork was so complicated that it almost was not
completed by the 4 p.m. deadline."
Is that worded clear enough?

[texag005]

Hey SA, what happened to Gagne just couldn't wait to get back to the Rangers? Looks like he inked a deal with the Brewers monday

[PinetarAg]

Hey SA, what happened to Gagne just couldn't wait to get back to the Rangers? Looks like he inked a deal with the Brewers monday

oh......burn

[Superaggie79]

John Daniels would've deserved to be shot if he signed Gagne for as much as he just went for.

[texag005]

Jon Daniels deserves to be shot anyways for what he's done to the Rangers. You are correct, but it wouldn't have surprised me had he tried to sign him for more. I just had to rub it in a little bit that you seemed sure he was bound to return to the Rangers b/c that's where he wanted to go.