Shuttle's Re-Grounded

[polish]

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=983737

Well what's gonna happen now :undecided

[Loftin]

NASA is a waste of money IMO.

[Pflugerville Ag]

Completely agree Loftin. We spend billions of dollars every year on space research, but what are we really going to gain? We are never going to live on another planet, so its a complete waste of money and resources. Spend that money on education in this country and maybe we will have some smarter children. That way, we can stop buying stuff from Japan and have people smart enough in the US to make it here. When was the last time you heard about Japan spending billions on their space program?

[polish]

Every day, in a variety of ways, American lives are touched by space technology. Since 1976, about 1,400 documented NASA inventions have benefited U.S. industry, improved the quality of life and created jobs for Americans.

Stuff you didn't Realize

1. Satelitte TV
2. Wireless Drills, shrub trimmers, dust buster, NASA gave the original Tech to Black and Decker.
3. Smoke Detectors
4. Home Insulation
5. Some Types of Water Filter
6. Cool Lasers (used for surgeries)
7. CATScan and MRI
8. Artificial Limbs
9. human chromosomes analysis
10. scratch-resistant lenses on glasses
11. Airplane stuff like reducing Windshear and resisting lightning strikes
12. Moonsuit fabric - it covers the Georgia Dome in Atlanta. Pound for Pound Stronger than steel and reduces cooling costs
13. Padding in FB Helmets
14. Better Golfballs
15. Reading Unreadable Documents through specialized imaging
16. Firefighter Breathing System
17. Hi-Shear Rescue Tools, Like when you need to open up a burning car
18. Fish Locators
19. hydroponics - Growing Crops without soil
20. Oil Spill Clean Beewaz microcapsules used at all oil spills
21. Firefly - Used to make Fire Maps
22. Virtual Reality - (not mature yet)
23. Their lasers are used in many applications, such as medical instruments, color graphics and printing, advanced TV projection, telecommunications, data storage, and semi-conductor processing.
24. Kidney dialysis machines
25. cardiovascular conditioner - physical therapy
26. Heat and Chill food service (aka Hospital Food-not sure if this was a good thing)
ETC ETC, the list is pretty damn long. It's also predicted that for every $1 spent by the US Gov't on NASA, it's Technologies give between 4-7 Dollars to the economy every year.

IMO Loftin your wrong!

[polish]

http://www.emints.org/ethemes/resources/S00000269.shtml

Click any of the links to see many of the other things i didn't mention like Urban planning and artificial hearts

[Loftin]

Every day, in a variety of ways, American lives are touched by space technology. Since 1976, about 1,400 documented NASA inventions have benefited U.S. industry, improved the quality of life and created jobs for Americans.

Stuff you didn't Realize

1. Satelitte TV
2. Wireless Drills, shrub trimmers, dust buster, NASA gave the original Tech to Black and Decker.
3. Smoke Detectors
4. Home Insulation
5. Some Types of Water Filter
6. Cool Lasers (used for surgeries)
7. CATScan and MRI
8. Artificial Limbs
9. human chromosomes analysis
10. scratch-resistant lenses on glasses
11. Airplane stuff like reducing Windshear and resisting lightning strikes
12. Moonsuit fabric - it covers the Georgia Dome in Atlanta. Pound for Pound Stronger than steel and reduces cooling costs
13. Padding in FB Helmets
14. Better Golfballs
15. Reading Unreadable Documents through specialized imaging
16. Firefighter Breathing System
17. Hi-Shear Rescue Tools, Like when you need to open up a burning car
18. Fish Locators
19. hydroponics - Growing Crops without soil
20. Oil Spill Clean Beewaz microcapsules used at all oil spills
21. Firefly - Used to make Fire Maps
22. Virtual Reality - (not mature yet)
23. Their lasers are used in many applications, such as medical instruments, color graphics and printing, advanced TV projection, telecommunications, data storage, and semi-conductor processing.
24. Kidney dialysis machines
25. cardiovascular conditioner - physical therapy
26. Heat and Chill food service (aka Hospital Food-not sure if this was a good thing)
ETC ETC, the list is pretty damn long. It's also predicted that for every $1 spent by the US Gov't on NASA, it's Technologies give between 4-7 Dollars to the economy every year.

IMO Loftin your wrong!

Thank you for explaining why the satellites we already have are great. There's no reason for us to go there now, though.

[Texas Aggie 07]

better golfballs, :p that's a great use of money

[polish]

Loftin Got OWNED and had nothing to say but this :D

Thank you for explaining why the satellites we already have are great. There's no reason for us to go there now, though.

How many of those had to do with Satellites, want me to help, 2. NASA has had the best long run R&D return for the Government ever and you want to stop it. We had a vision to go to the moon, we created new Technology. We had a vision, let’s gets Satellites to all the Planets, new technology flourishes once again. New vision is to get to Mars. Hmm what’s gonna happen... New Technology for 1000 Alex. You realize the fleet will not fly from 2010 to 2020 to work strictly on R&D and building new ships, that alone will give us more new Technology than you can imagine.

I hope to God you never get to be President, once a civilization gives on R&D and its R&D is countered by another, the previous civilization falls, the day we stop giving money to NASA and the plethora of other research institutions around the US, is the day we start the march downward.

For Pflug
When was the last time you heard about Japan spending billions on their space program?

"Spread among six Japanese ministries and agencies involved in space programs, the Tokyo government has allocated $3.4 billion for fiscal year 2005." Source- Asia Times


We are never going to live on another planet, so it’s a complete waste of money and resources

It seems the universe has resources that we might need, I'm glad you’re God and know this will never be needed, please tell Lottery numbers for tonight. What happens if we build a system of space elevators with which we can transport resources within our own solar system, letting us not harm our own wildlife and land, no that would suck. You thought none of this through

Spend that money on education in this country and maybe we will have some smarter children.
Really? That's what is takes? I don't know seems to me it takes better parenting, no you can't go out tonight, no you can't play NCAA06 all day on your day off. I think its called effort. Japanese Students spend much more of their time studying. Why? B/c tests determine absolutely everything, maybe we should take that system? Throwing money at the education system will fix Jack and ****, it's the people who have to change.


That way, we can stop buying stuff from Japan and have people smart enough in the US to make it here.

We don't need to be making Shirts in the US, we have smarter people who can do that, we are about Info and Tech. There workers and every country over in Asia pays less so yes they get to make cheaper crap products which we don't want to make. We are always gonna buy stuff from other countries, what we need to fix is the fact that other countries don't pay for our **** aka windows and stuff like that. Manufacturing will never again be dominant in America, it'll patents and technology, anything from cars to pants to whatever won't be made here in the not to distant future. It has nothing to do with how smart the kids are really, as to salaries and Economics.

Please people base your arguments in some logic, when discussing something about real world stuff. BS is for sports and stuff ;)

[Slotback]

Problem is that the shuttle design is now close to 40 years old. It is past time for a new space delivery system.

[Loftin]

Please people base your arguments in some logic, when discussing something about real world stuff. BS is for sports and stuff

I stand corrected, it looks like we have a space geek on the boards. :p

[polish]

Space Geek? Oh thats only one of many many Geekdoms i belong to :(

I'm pretty much a geek through and through.

[Loftin]

Space Geek? Oh thats only one of many many Geekdoms i belong to :(

I'm pretty much a geek through and through.

Well, at least your not a geek in denial.

[CoolaidWade]

There is alot of stuff they aren't telling us... Didn't the last one go down because of foam?

They are even talking about Rescue Missions on TV right now. Or, if a rescue mission is needed right now for the people up as we speak they might not be able to authorize another launch. Because of foam.

[polish]

I agree Coolaid, i think we need to scrap this entire fleet and do strictly R&D until we have better systems, that can take the punishment.

[Pflugerville Ag]

Throwing money at the education system will fix Jack and ****, it's the people who have to change.

Polish, I completely disagree with that statement. Considering my wife and sister are both teachers, I know a little bit about schools and their funding. Parenting goes a long way, but is not nearly enough. Paying your best teachers less than $35K, overcrowding schools, etc have a huge affect on our kids. I don't feel like going into all the details, but I'll leave it at this...you get what you pay for.

[polish]

Parenting and personal reponsibility are all you need to learn. A math textbook is a math textbook, no matter who teaches it. I went to the ghetto elelmentary, although i went to rich middle and high school.

I was the only one from my Elem. in my HS's top 10%, which seems to prove your point, however think about it. Why was i different than everyone else, personally responsibility. Honestly the 4th graders spending half his time on the internet and the other half talking on his cell and playing video games is gonna suck at school. Better teachers make it easier, i agree, however it's up to the student to learn the material, if he has to *God Forbid* turn off the tv and study a couple of hours so be it.

I'll tell you why i think this way. When i was little, my mom worked the night shift as a nurse, my dad was traveling for business 10 months out of the year. Once i got in hs my parents got promotions and were home all the time. But i had to grow up myself, i had to learn how to be an adult atan early age. It grounded me. Amongest my peers here at A&M i usually see so much lack of understanding of the world and how choices effect them. Life is hard, work hard, and you'll succeed. There are equal opportunities for everyone, but there's not equal outcomes b/c of one thing, hard work (lower and middle class only, some upper class can bypass this)

[Dustin00whoop]

Polish, I completely disagree with that statement. Considering my wife and sister are both teachers, I know a little bit about schools and their funding. Parenting goes a long way, but is not nearly enough. Paying your best teachers less than $35K, overcrowding schools, etc have a huge affect on our kids. I don't feel like going into all the details, but I'll leave it at this...you get what you pay for.

Please keep in mind that my sister is also a teacher. I agree that you get what you pay for, but when the problem is society's and regulation rather than funding there isn't much that money will do to fix it. You want to fix the education problems in TX? How about making the restrictions on teachers tougher? Currently, a teacher can teach at a school district without even passing the certification exam. They have one year to pass it. If they don't pass it within the year, they are no longer allowed to teach at that school district anymore. However, there is nothing in place that prevents them from changing to a different school district.

Money solves some problems, but it won't solve education. Your arguement will be, look at the SAT scores & the graduation levels & the % that go to college in this rich school district & that rich school district. And say that is proof that money solves the problem. I disagree. I say that the school district is rich in the first place because there are successful citizens living in that area, paying taxes, & teaching their kids from the very beginning what they need to know & how to be upstanding citizens.

Simply throwing money at a problem will not fix it. Put money toward the homeless & we will still have people without shelter. Increase funding to stop illegal immigrants or illegal drugs from entering the nation & they will still find a way into America. Throw billions of dollars at education & all you get are newer schools with higher paid teachers trying to educate America. True, you may have a higher class of people who desire to be teachers because they can make a better living by teaching. But the bottom line is that an ever increasing percentage of the kids that they teach will go home & follow what they learn from their parents rather than what even the highest paid teachers try to teach them.

The only way that I can come anywhere close to accepting your arguement on putting more money towards education is if you are strictly speaking of doing it at an upper education level--colleges &/or grad programs. Then you are only putting that money towards the ones who have overcome the problems that society presents--at least to a certain extent. How about scholarships to help those who are financially challenged but have proven scholastically capable of being worthy of higher education. A much better investment than simply trying to fix the whole country's education problems.

The mistake you made originally was assuming that NASA was strictly about space & living on other planets. At least we have something to show for the money we have put into NASA, Mr. New Dish Network Customer. ;)

[Loftin]

My mom is a teacher. As bad as teachers are paid here, it is actually worse elsewhere. My family lived in Knoxville, TN for two years, then we moved to Longview, Texas. Pine Tree ISD in Longview pays the minimum salary allowed in the state of Texas. That salary, however, was an $8,000 a year raise from the salary in TN. The "you get what you pay for" thing is true in most cases. Most teachers(good and bad) try as hard as they can to get into better schhols. The crappy schools are usually full of teachers fresh out of college. My mom was turned down for one of the jobs she applied for in Tennessee because they had affirmative action and my mom applied for a "black position."

Also, smart students usually go for better jobs. When teachers are making about $40K a year(if they're lucky) after 20 years of teaching, your good students are going to become lawyers, doctors, CPAs etc. A teacher who is fluent in Spanish is high in demand right now. My sister graduated from Texas in 2000 and one of her friends who speaks Spanish got a signing bonus for going to some crappy Dallas school, which shows how desperate they are for good teachers.

[Pflugerville Ag]

If you paid teachers more money, then more people would actually want to be teachers. Then you wouldn't have to have the stupid rule that you do not have to have a college degree in Education to be a teacher (that applies to HS only, FWIW). The only reason they do that is b/c it is the only way to get people to teach for $30K per year in a bad school district. Like I said before, you get what you pay for.

Like Loftin said, all teachers try their hardest to get to the best school districts. So, the rich get richer is pretty accurate. True, the nicer neighborhoods have better scores. Part of it is b/c those kids come from successful families and part of it is b/c the best teachers teach in those districts. Its a catch 22. If you want a better eduction system, then you need better teachers. If you want better teachers, you need to make it worth it for them to teach. To do that, they need more money.

[Dustin00whoop]

If you paid teachers more money, then more people would actually want to be teachers. Then you wouldn't have to have the stupid rule that you do not have to have a college degree in Education to be a teacher (that applies to HS only, FWIW). The only reason they do that is b/c it is the only way to get people to teach for $30K per year in a bad school district. Like I said before, you get what you pay for.

Like Loftin said, all teachers try their hardest to get to the best school districts. So, the rich get richer is pretty accurate. True, the nicer neighborhoods have better scores. Part of it is b/c those kids come from successful families and part of it is b/c the best teachers teach in those districts. Its a catch 22. If you want a better eduction system, then you need better teachers. If you want better teachers, you need to make it worth it for them to teach. To do that, they need more money.

We are talking about different rules. I have no clue about college degrees in education to be a teacher. I'm talking about the teacher certification (completely seperate of your college education) that you must pass. Clearly, having a rule in place that allows unarguably incompetent people to educate our youth is a problem. Money won't fix that, regulation will. A higher student to teacher ratio which qualified educators is better than a lower ratio with unqualified educators.

On your second paragraph: Agreed, but what problems does having a better education system solve? We are on the same page that to have better educators that you need to pay teachers more. But what does that solve--besides teachers making more money. The point is, is that having better teachers isn't going to fix anything because the shortcomings in America are more societal based than educational.

[jagowar]

My opinion on the subject.... teachers are a bit underpaid (but not nearly as bad as the "teachers" like to make it look). 35k nearly as bad as it sounds when you remember they get most holidays off and have summers off. But on the other hand they have to deal with all the braindead kids. But IMO the average should be right at 40k.

[CoolaidWade]

Teachers are so underpaid for what they do and thier contribution to society that it's sick.

At least put them on the same scale as fire and police or other civil servents. Those guys make almost twice as much as teachers and work less. (Well firefighters do anyway)

[polish]

Successful parents teach their kids to be successful, loser parents teach their kids to be losers. By loser i don't mean their idiots, but you tend to follow in your parents footsteps, you see how to handle things and whatnot. Anyways, Dustin props to you, good arguments.

When i went to Elementary schools i swear to God half the times my teachers didn't know english, they spoke in Spanish many times. They stuck me and some other white kids in that school so it would look better, then when people came to visit, the principal would pull like me and the 6 other white kids out and parade us around. I taught myself, i still say it's all up to the kids effort

Dustin Rep+3